Today David and I decided to take Hattie and Charlie for a walk together but it just wasn't to be as he was so bad on his lead David had to go in a different direction and Hattie and I were alone as usual. We are both so tired doing individual walks, training, recall training, agility etc. But the minute we change Charlie's walk or add another eliment e.g. Hattie or one of the children, or me, he goes back to square one, pulling badly on his lead which leaves us thinking are we ever going to get there with him. We are putting so much in but realistically we are feeling we will be walking our dogs separately for for foreseable future as the recall training is going to take many more months so no off lead walks. We can't walk in fields or woods as his prey drive is so high he just pings like crazy on his lead, so only pavement/road walks. It wasn't supposed to be like this also it leaves us no time for anything else. Saturday's is now a right off for me, up early to go to agility, get back walk Hattie, get back train Charlie, get Hattie to join Charlie for supervised play/exercise in the garden, later in the afternoon more recall training for Charlie, eat, try to fit my family in and bed. Winter is looming and we are feeling pretty low at the moment. He will be 2 in a few weeks and we have put 14 months of work in and we are not moving forward the way we need to. On the upside the trainer said he was the best dog at agility this morning and I only messed up once . I am following Pippa's book to the letter so we must be doing something wrong. I feel he gets into a routine, David walking him on his own, me training him etc. then he can't seem to cope with any change. Don't want to get up tomorrow and have to do this all over again and when David has to travel to the USA in the next couple of weeks for a week I really don't know how I am going to cope walking him etc. Sorry to moan you must be fed up with my posts, I try to stay positive saying "we will get there" but as time pushes on I am not so sure any more. Walking around our village all I get is "where's Charlie, how's he getting on, still walking them separately Helen?" I feel like such a fool. As he lies on my feet looking up at me with his big brown eyes I feel complete love for him and want so much for him to do well. Signing off now shattered, deflated and totally out of ideas. Night Helen
Re: What are we to do? Oh, Helen. I don't know what to say other than we're here to listen and sending you big virtual hugs. It helps to get it out of your system, so keep on posting, and you're doing all the right things, we've heard so many good things Charlie has been doing, try to remember those. Just because Charlie is not learning very quickly doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, he's just taking his time. He can learn, you're doing well in agility, he's just stubborn! If you're totally at the end of your tether I do have one radical suggestion, have you thought about sending him away to a reputatable trainer? It's not something I would normally even think about but your situation and Charlie remind me a lot of a lady who took one of Juno's litter mates, after a year she sent him back to the breeder (also trainer). I think Jack (Juno's brother) was maybe a bit worse because he kept jumping their five foot high wall and taking himself off on adventures. Anyway, Ian had him for six weeks and then for several months worked with owner and dog together. Jack would never win an obidience competition but he became a good family dog - with the odd moment of madness. Keep going, we're here. Big hugs Kerryn
Re: What are we to do? I cant add anything to what Kerryn has said , but agree, keep posting, we are always here for support even if we cant actually do anything, so sorry you are feeling so low .
Re: What are we to do? Oh Helen, you sound exhausted! You are doing a brilliant job with Charlie and are making a huge effort both for and with him. And reading your posts on here I think you really are making genuine progress with him. But you do need to look after yourself too! It sounds like you would benefit from coming up with some strategies to give you a break some Saturdays, and to help you manage whenDavid is away. Is there anyone else who could maybe walk Hattie for you occasionally? As it sounds like Charlie is the one that needs the most personal attention, maybe Hattie could even spend the night somewhere else once or twice in that week, so you can concentrate on C for a bit without wearing yourself out? If Charlie were a toddler, I'd suggest a relative stay over while hubbie is away, for moral (and actual) support. Might that be an option here? Just brainstorming - but I do think its ok to ask for help. Walking them together has to be the ultimate goal, but remember you got where you are with Charlie by taking small steps. Maybe try walking them in sight of each other but far apart (on a playing field perhaps), or just coming together with David for the very end of a walk, when they're both tired? I also think its ok for them to miss the odd walk as a one off in an unusual week. Hope some of this helps! I am genuinely impressed by how hard you work with Charlie, and not surprised it gets you down sometimes. Big hugs to you and him! Sam.
Re: What are we to do? It sounds to me like you could really do with some hands on help and support from a competent trainer. It can be of huge benefit to have skills and techniques demonstrated to you. And when you are stuck in a rut, the moral support of a professional trainer can be just what you need to get things moving again. Helen, have you thought of asking your agility trainer for some one-to-ones? Pippa
Re: What are we to do? Really feeling for you Helen. You have done so much for Charlie, and deserve for everything to click into place. Sending you lots and lots of support.
Re: What are we to do? Thank you again everyone for your unwavering support and suggestions. In answer to your suggestiions:- Kerryn, we did infact send Charlie to a trainer for 4 weeks but the trainer used horrific training procedures WITHOUT our conscent so we would never do that again and we still feel devestated. Sam, I don't like to ask anyone for anything as I always feel people have enough to do themselves so I couldn't ask for someone to walk Hattie. So many people have told me how foolish I am to keep him and what a stupid thing it was to get him and that we should send him back to the rescue centre, so definately wouldn't ask those people. Pippa, thank you, I don't really feel we are stuck in a rut I feel Charlie can't accept it when we add an extra eliment which is the worry for us as everything has to be proofed. The agility trainer is an hours drive there and back plus the training. I think the agility is something she did the training for because she loves it and as she only charges £5 for the saturday session, she actually runs a livery stables. I also just don't have any more daytime left, but maybe I could go back to the dog classes I have used for Hattie and briefly for Charlie, that would take 2 hours + one evening. At this class I had the techniques shown to me but Charlie becomes a different dog when outside of these situations. I often wonder if he has some sort of neurological problem like ADHD or goldfish 3 second memory problem!! I have read the section in your book about the training lead and how it musn't be associated with the training and to leave it on. I have done that but Charlie spends his whole time getting wrapped and caught around the trees we have in our garden and I am concerned that he is going to do himself damage as he charges around at 100 mph. Any suggestions? Also as he responds to the whistle do you think clicker training him to heel could be an option or are we opening ourselves up to another lengthy process and would this have to be used forever as it could prove difficult if we ever get to the stage of walking them together? Sorry to rattle on. Hope you are all well. Again many thanks I really do appreciate it. Helen x
Re: What are we to do? Oh Helen, my heart goes out to you , fancy people saying that you should send Charlie back to the rescue , how hurtful for you , negative people are best avoided for sure . I wish I had some practical advice to offer, but just want to say how much I admire your determination to do your level best for him x
Re: What are we to do? He really does sound quite a high-energy bundle!!! Just one suggestion, with that in mind, what are you feeding him? Some commercial foods are high in carbohydrates and sugars that dogs dont need... It might all seem like too much to consider at once, but some people report that their dogs become much calmer when raw fed.
Re: What are we to do? Hi Karen we feed both of our dogs on Fish4Dogs (www.fish4dogs.co.uk) which has no additives etc. and has 55% omega oils so great for their joints, coat etc. When we got Hattie she was on a raw diet, but I couldn't handle it and gave up after 18 months, I have to say she hasn't suffered! Maybe this is the problem, hadn't thought of that Rang the lady we got Hattie from and she recommended it if we were stopping raw diet. What do you think? Thanks Kate, I may well take your advice and avoid these negative people. The sorry thing is one of them is a "friend" and I have looked after her very large dog since he was a puppy (now 5) every other month for 1 - 2 weeks each time and I don't any more as Charlie is such a handful, so she is put out because her cosy arrangement has ended. Strangely enough she never offers me any help! Helen
Re: What are we to do? Sorry Helen, I know nothing about Fish4Dogs, though it sounds good. A friend of mine with a rather wild (though lovely) labradoodle changed her to raw food recently and reported a quite dramatic change in behaviour, with the dog becoming much calmer almost immediately - but they were feeding her kibble before. How infuriating for you with your 'friend'. Honestly, some people - happy enough to take, when help is offered, but slow to be supportive when you most need it...
Re: What are we to do? I used to use fish 4 dogs training treats and buy their snacks - they are good quality products but I had to stop as it turned out Barney couldn't cope with so much fish in his diet. I would recommend them to anyone who's dog hasn't got a trick tummy (although bizarely he can eat a rawhide chew with no ill effects!)
Re: What are we to do? I had and still have, a Lab that was very difficult when young. I changed his diet to Natures Menu for working dogs and he became calmer. It is a 400gm block of different raw meats with maize and vegetables and comes frozen. He has one and a half blocks a day, he is a tall, working bred Lab and weighs 30kg. It may be worth you trying that and it isn't difficult to feed, just cut it open and put into dish. I do appreciate how you are feeling, I thought having a Lab would be easier than having German Pointers, I had 5 of those and the two Labs are a nightmare in comparison. Stacia
Re: What are we to do? Hi Stacia, I did used to feed Hattie a raw diet but always worried that she wasn't getting all the necessary nutriants, then when she was spayed she wouldn't eat it and didn't for a week and the vet was becoming concerned, so in desparation I went to a neighbour and asked for a bowl of whatever her dog ate which was a complete (a rubbish one though) and she ate it and that was it we went onto complete but also I just didn't like the raw and just not sure if I could go back to it and now for 2 dogs. As Charlie is Labrador x Pointer (GSP we think) I should have guessed that's a receipe for disaster, I really need to start letting my head rule my heart!! Thanks Helen x
Re: What are we to do? I don't like raw either ;D I always feel that a lot of the dogs fed raw don't have the right balance of foods, some are fed just on chicken carcases which may be OK but I would worry if it was my dog. Natures Menu for the working dog, seems to have everything in it. My other two dogs are fed Kibble, if I put the 'difficult' dog on kibble, he goes hyper again. I hadn't realised that Charlie might be a GSP cross. I have had GSPs and they do tend to hunt a fair way away from you, so maybe Charlie is doing what comes naturally, but they do come back, it is just a question of getting used to it. Have you thought of doing gundog training? You don't have to go on any shoots at all. However, the dogs love to find dummies, it uses their brains to find ones that are hidden, you can stop the dog and re-direct him and you might find you can get him focussed on a ball and not leave your side! I feel he needs to use his brain and you might find that calms him down. I do understand your frustration, I have to take my Labs separately as the difficult one will lunge at other dogs when on the lead and look very fierce. In a gundog class he is an angel, dogs can sit on his feet and he will ignore them. I thought Labs would be easy! Stacia
Re: What are we to do? Thanks for the food info, will give it some thought. The problem with Charlie was he disappeared for upto an hour and yes he did come back but I couldn't cope with that and there are gun happy farmers around here. He actually has NO recall which is what I am trying to work on but now we are outside it's not happening. I wouldn't take him to gundog classes as he is a maniac and I doubt they would take us even if I had any more spare time. We can't direct him let alone re-direct him and staying with us is just a distant dream for us!! Tried to get him focussed on his favourite squeaky balls this morning, no success he just bombed around the garden in the pouring rain ignoring me for a change for one whole hour, tried after that when I thought he must be tired, to focuss him - a couple of throws of the balls and he was off again as if I didn't exist. I was soaking and being "fun" running around, clapping, calling excitedly but the trees and being a looney is far more up his street. I really, really don't know what I am going to do as everything we do for him fails. I am totally at a loss as to what is possibly wrong with him or is it us just not upto the job. The rescue centre has a lot to answer for homing such a difficult dog with a family. Feeling quite desparate since Saturday and can't seem to pull myself together to move on. Feel all I do is complain, must write note to self - stop complaining Helen! Take care Stacia and thank you for your help. xx
