We got Scouts AKC papers in the mail today, which came with a 4 generation pedigree certificate. It appears that Scouts parents are father & daughter . I am not real happy to learn that Scout was part of an inbred litter. I carefully looked over the last 4 generations and it looks like Scouts parents were the only ones that were so closely related so it looks like the inbreeding is limited to 1 generation. Has anyone else owned an inbred puppy? Are there any problems, physical or mental, that can arise from a first generation inbreeding?
Re: Not real happy. That is fairly closely bred. However, if the parents of Scout's father were not closely related to each other and the mother of the daughter (i.e. the mother of Scout's mother) was not closely related to Scout's father then it is probably not an issue. Basically, you want to see unrelated dogs in the generation preceding Scout's parents (obviously that generation will also include Scout's father). From what you say, it is the case that they seem to be unrelated... Hopefully both of Scout's parents were also good in the hip and elbow and health check department. If you have not got them, for interest it might be worth asking for health test info for as many of Scout's ancestor's as the breeder has this info for. As you probably know, the issue with close breeding is that normally hidden and harmful genes might be inherited in two doses. However, if there are no harmful genes there to start with there is not necessarily a problem. I would certainly not expect any mental problems. Don't worry too much.. Edit: Don't want to make it seem like I am advocating close breeding in dogs. I'm not. Just saying 'Don't panic'
Re: Not real happy. Can you check whether the AKC offers an inbreeding coefficient calculator - then you can check what the result is for Scout exactly. In the UK, for dogs registered with the KC, there is a mating inbreeding coefficient calculator here: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/inbreed/Default.aspx All you do is type in your dog's KC name. In 2 seconds, I can look up the inbreeding coefficient of my dog and compare it to the breed average (6.4% for labradors) - by the way, others might be interested to know that you can use the KC predictor tool for registered parents to check before you buy the puppy. The UK KC says: An inbreeding coefficient of 12.5% means that there is a 1 in 8 chance that a dog will inherit the same version of gene from the same dog that appears in both the sire’s and dam’s pedigree. The puppies born to a mother/son, father/daughter or brother/sister mating (which the Kennel Club will no longer accept for registration), would be at least 25%. The inbreeding coefficient of puppies born from a grandfather/granddaughter mating would be at least 12.5%.
Re: Not real happy. Interesting. Then I would be asking the breeder if the litter was actually registered. According to their rules the KC would not register a litter from parents that closely related. This still doesn't mean that Scout will have any problems.
Re: Not real happy. [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4647.msg56987#msg56987 date=1393311472] This still doesn't mean that Scout will have any problems. [/quote] No, not at all - as you say, if no problematic genes there in the first place, no problem. And the coefficient indicates the chance the same gene will be inherited (not the certainty). The rules of the AKC might be different, but worth checking. It is all very interesting. None of this information appears in the puppy pack for buyers though - you have to go search it out yourself.
Re: Not real happy. Ah yes, FNITguy is in the US. I am pretty sure that the Aussie equivalent (ANKC) doesn't have this great breed coefficient facility but I'm not sure about the 'relatedness' rule.
Re: Not real happy. Like Rachael, I'll stress that this kind of line breeding (deliberate inbreeding) is not nowadays considered a good thing. However, I have owned many line bred dogs over the years, and line breeding even in this very close way was extremely common in Field Trial and show bred dogs until very recently. My eldest cocker, Meg, who is eleven and fighting fit, has a father/daughter mating behind her. Many people have probably owned line bred dogs without even knowing, and the vast majority would not experience any problems in their puppy as a result. There is a risk but the risk to your puppy is probably small. The main harm from this practice is in perpetuating it over generation after generation. I'll stress again, that I am not promoting line breeding, or trying to diminish the effects, I am just saying that this was the norm until recently in the UK and is probably still the norm in the USA. It may have increased problems in the breed as a whole, but is not a matter for immediate concern with regard to the health of your puppy. You can't do anything about it, so put it behind you and don't worry
Re: Not real happy. Thanks Pippa and everyone for the response. It does make me feel better to know that there shouldn't be any problems due to the inbreeding. While I am still not happy about it, like Pippa said there is nothing I can do about it. Besides the issue with the worms Scout did get a clean bill of health from the vet so as long as he is healthy that is what matters.
Re: Not real happy. He may well have inherited all the very best genes and be super fabulous his whole life It can work that way too.
