Hi all, Bey and I have a new problem (aside of her amazing ability to find and roll in fox poo - will she ever grow out of this horrible habit) I went to see a professional gun dog trainer and he told me to change my whistle from a 210.5 to a 211.5, which I did yesterday. I must say the pitch of the 211.5 is horrible but worst than that Bey completely ignored me - she's 8 months old and a little bugger at times but now doesn't even sit on the 211.5 - any advice welcome please. Also the trainer recommended I start her on left/right short retrieves. One of each per training session. The next day (last Saturday) she was brilliant and every day this week has gradually got worst. She's never been the most passionate puppy at bringing the dummy back (she casts out lovely) but once she gets to it she picks it up drops it and then goes in hunt of fox poo. (I will admit she is a monkey on the recall whistle at times but would at least bring the dummy back) What I don't understand is she'll do it for the professional dog trainer but is a bugger for me. He did say I need to be more authoritative with her (being a man of the world - I've simply tried to speak in a lower voice -much to my fiancée's humour) Final question, am I ok to start walking Bey with my 10yr old fully trained dog. (I bought her trained 7 years ago and now realise why I did that!!!) I now realise why so many people on shoots over the years have said I'll never find another dog like my old girl!!!!!! I'm not sure I realised how much repetition was required when training! Also is she still classified a puppy at 8 months? Help please. Thanks Dan
Re: Retrieving at 8 months So I'm very much a beginner but I have no idea why your trainer wants you to change whistle, I use a 210.5 because my friend does and we sometimes look after each other's dogs. It's never been suggested I have the 'wrong' whistle. If your girl isn't super enthusiastic, left and right might be an issue because she needs to be steady to wait for direction. I would be tempted to reduce the frequency and focus more on stuff that increases her desire but you might want to talk to your trainer. You can probably walk your dogs together but you'll still need to give her plenty 1-2-1 time. There's definitely a lot of repetition!! I'm not a big fan of trainers who can only work in one way and insist on absolutely everything being done exactly their way. I realise they know far more than I but the best (and most fun!) trainers I've seen are flexible and have several ways to approach the same thing..... Very much my 2 penny worth, feel free to ignore me completely ;D
Re: Retrieving at 8 months There appears to be a 'thing' which says spaniels use 210.5 whistles and retrievers 211.5 but I don't think it matters a damn which whistle you use. I can't bear the 211.5 as it echos under my hat and makes my tinnitus worse. I use a 210.5 for my Labs. With my GSPs I could use either of these at any time and they always obeyed (well usually!) either of them as it is the way you blow the whistle that dogs seem to understand. Perhaps your dog is bored with doing left and rights? She will do it for the trainer as she isn't sure of him and what he might do, but she knows you very well and how you will react
Re: Retrieving at 8 months I agree re the whistle , its up to you and your girl , she has got used to one so why change it ? I did lots of basic training with Sam from him being a very young pup but didnt go to our first gundog lesson until he was about ten months old because he simply found it all too much to absorb , far too many other things going on around him and he had yet to reach a good level of concentration . Yes, your girl is still very much a puppy , I dont think Labs reach adulthood until they are around 14 months old or so , they get bored so easily and can go off the boil if set too many challenges . Maybe others wont agree with me, but its just my opinion
Re: Retrieving at 8 months Thank you Barbara, Stacia & Katie. Any tips for getting her bringing the dummy back (or enject some enthusiasm?) or do I go back a stage to training corridor. Thanks
Re: Retrieving at 8 months Run away as she is coming back so that she will chase you, then turn round and gently take the dummy. Every time she picks up something in the house, always look pleased when she comes to you with it, even if she shouldn't have it, smile and stroke her and don't take it straight away. I reward my Lab with a tennis ball when he gives me the dummy, not every time now.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months I wrote down the things we did around increasing desire after a hiccup on page 2 of this thread: http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=3679.msg44873#msg44873 I didn't have too much of a problem with keep away til recently and it's mostly resolved itself by upping the amount of fast and furious retrieves to re-establish the habit....if you haven't established a good return yet though corridors could well help, or a long line to just give her a little encouragement to come back. Stacia's running away is a good idea too, see what works for you or even use them all at different times to keep her guessing I've also recently realised our recall isn't as good as it needs to be so we're doing quite a bit of work revisiting our core skills......it never ends! Good job it's fun
Re: Retrieving at 8 months I think you need to reinforce the recall using your original whistle, after all you have been using it for the pup for a while. At 8 months, Try simple go back (memory) retrieves, leave the right and lefts until you get a good reponse to the simple retrieves. Sometimes when you think a pup has grasped a certain action, but they regress and you need almost re-teach the action. As for the dog playing keep away, get youself against a fence or hedge so the dog cannot go past you, go overboard with fuss when successful. It will come right in time, every dog is different some grasp it sooner some later.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months I had a very difficult German Pointer and she would not give me the retrieve, played keep away, so in exasperation I told her I didn't want it and to go away! This caused her to come nearer and nearer to me and I turned my back on her and said 'go away' and refused to even look at the retrieve. Eventually she pushed it into my hand and from there after she always lifted her head with the dummy in her mouth and placed it in my hand
Re: Retrieving at 8 months [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4791.msg59860#msg59860 date=1394444569] I had a very difficult German Pointer and she would not give me the retrieve, played keep away, so in exasperation I told her I didn't want it and to go away! This caused her to come nearer and nearer to me and I turned my back on her and said 'go away' and refused to even look at the retrieve. Eventually she pushed it into my hand and from there after she always lifted her head with the dummy in her mouth and placed it in my hand [/quote] Awww!!! Just like a teenager! Reverse psychology, works every time
Re: Retrieving at 8 months Thanks everyone, I've been back on recall training for a week and have slacked off the dummies in the hope that she'll get some desire back too. Also ordered a rabit skin dummy to see if that gets the retrieving juices flowing!!! Does anyone have any tips for stopping jumping up at the work surface. She doesn't really jump up at people but loves to jump up in the kitchen/utility, she understands OFF but still jumps up in the first place. Thanks.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4791.msg59860#msg59860 date=1394444569] I had a very difficult German Pointer and she would not give me the retrieve, played keep away, so in exasperation I told her I didn't want it and to go away! This caused her to come nearer and nearer to me and I turned my back on her and said 'go away' and refused to even look at the retrieve. Eventually she pushed it into my hand and from there after she always lifted her head with the dummy in her mouth and placed it in my hand [/quote] I did this with Charlie - for hours and hours and hours. It didn't work. He much preferred me to be waiting for the dummy and watching him run round killing it, but he'd do it on his own quite happily while I inspected a bush. The gundog trainer even chased him away so he couldn't get near me for some of those hours. He thought that was fantastic! Clicker trained the return in the end.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months If all else has failed ie obedience! Then put lots of empty cake tins, baking trays, cutlery and with luck she will jump up and knock some off which will clatter and make her think. Otherwise an hour devoted to telling her 'no' every time she jumps on the counter and rewarding her for not doing it with something she really likes.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months Hi all, quick update, The ordering of the rabbit skin dummy worked a treat and she gained interest in retrieving again thank you! The problems continue though, I went back for my monthly professional training session and Bey was fabulous. She retrieve for him he started her on basic left and right and even did and sit "come" with dummy half way and retrieve she brought everything back to either him or me - perfect. But today she's back to her old self and won't bring the Dummy back to me at best or drops it and goes off for a sniff at worst. The trainer told me she doesn't see me as the Alpha Male and I need to be more dominant. Does this mean I should stop tickles in the kitchen? He told me that her rolling over for a tummy tickle is because I allow her to be the alpha male and I submit to her.......should I stop tickles and praise unless training? Really confused as to how I be the Alpha male more......I'm pretty masculine but lower my voice even more to try to make her "come" which she still ignores. He did say she is quite immature for 9 months (now!) All advice welcome please.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months I'm not sure it's related to your problem but do you ask your trainer to handle your dog? It's just I've been to several trainers and none of them have handled my dog. I expect them to teach me how to train my dog. I wonder of she's getting confused with the changing about? Obviously some people have their dogs trained by professional dog trainers either completely or whilst they're on holiday or if they're finding something specific difficult and there's nothing wrong with that. I just think it's unusual to see a trainer handling a clients dog in class or a lesson. I don't think stopping tummy tickles will help you and I'm not convinced about this alpha male stuff and I believe these kind of theories have been shown to be unfounded. It sounds to me like you need to work on her enthusiasm which would be things like your rabbit skin dummy, allowing her to chase the dummy - no steadiness, don't do too much - two or three retrieves and then a break for a few days even. Also choose your training ground carefully, short grass with a minimum of smells for preference....a playing field maybe?
Re: Retrieving at 8 months Hi Barbara, I don't really ask him to handle her, more he shows me how with her and then I do it and she then does it in front of him. But when I get her home she doesn't do it for me! It's very frustrating! Thanks for the advice though.
Re: Retrieving at 8 months The advice about the Alpha Male stuff and tummy rubs just sounds...er... a bit mad. Sorry. Maybe your trainer really means something else, and it's getting lost in translation but it really sounds a bit nutty to me. By lost in translation I mean perhaps when your trainer tells you not to give her tummy rubs, maybe he means she gets too much attention from you or something like that. And maybe when he tells you to be more Alpha Male he means something about the way you communicate and so on. I do think Barbara has a point - if he is doing something different, or there is something different about the circumstances, then it might be an idea for him not to handle your dog. Let him tell you how to do it first (rather than the dog repeating what she has just done for him) and then maybe he'll be able to tell you what you should be doing differently?
Re: Retrieving at 8 months I don't mean to sound rude, but I completely disagree with what your trainer has said about this. Don't stop the tummy tickles. The fact that your dog rolls over for you for a tummy tickle just shows that she trusts you. She enjoys it. It is a good thing Keep doing it.
