Hello again everyone. Firstly, apologies if this post seems very similar to previous ones, I didn't think it was fair to start asking for people's opinions on someone else's thread. Me and Guinness went on our first Gundog one to one last week. It lasted for an hour and was with an "old school" gundog trainer who seemed very knowledgeable. During the lesson, as expected, the trainer picked up on some bad habits I have been getting into with Guinness (such as walking off-lead too soon and without discipline). We worked on SIT, STAY, COME HEEL and a basic dummy retrieve. Reward for getting it right was praise only. Since the lesson, I have been having real trouble in getting Guinness to concentrate on me and what I want of him. He just doesn't seem to want to work for praise only. I have been really good and not given him a treat for a week, doing daily training with praise only rewards. Whilst working, he fidgets and will lose interest. I feel like we have not got anywhere! Tonight I caved in a did a training session using the same exercises but with food as a reward every other time he got it right. His work was ten times better. He wouldn't take his eyes off me and listened to me and only me. When told to sit, his bum hit the floor quicker than ever! What is everyone's opinion on using food as a reward like this? Is there any reason why I can't use food to start with and phase it out? Is there anything wrong with using food in return for his un-divided attention? If not food, how else do people get their dogs to become interested in them, more than almost anything else? Thanks Tom
Re: Guinness' first gundog training one-to-one I have done no gundog training, only obedience training. But, with a food motivated dog, I would always use food as a reward. A dog that is highly food motivated is like a gift, as it is so easy and convenient to use small food treats as rewards and to communicate information to the dog ("yes, you got it right!"). With any dog, the key is to find something the dog wants and then to make access to it contingent on the dog doing something that you want. It doesn't matter what 'the thing that the dog wants' is, it just has to really want it and you have to be able to control access to it. If your dog wants food treats above all else, then food treats are the way to go. To do otherwise would be a bit of a waste of an opportunity, I would say. You can gradually reduce their use for behaviours that have become well learned - so just the occasional, fast, accurate sit might get a treat, eventually. And you can phase out having the food on your person for training sessions. But I'd never expect a dog to work for nothing (I wouldn't!) so I never phase it out 100%, even for well-learned behaviours. The use of food doesn't stop you using other fun things as rewards too - a big, energetic pat, or a retrieve, or the chance to jump up on the couch, or access to a favourite toy, or the chance to lick the risotto pot (I'be heard it happens in some households or whatever.
Re: Guinness' first gundog training one-to-one I wouldn't work for nothing either treats for us! Sometimes food sometimes his ball.
Re: Guinness' first gundog training one-to-one Hi Tom, It is very common for traditional gundog trainers to reject the use of food. I was such a trainer for many years. My advice to people attending tradtional gundog classes is to get what they can from them, which means going along with what the trainer wants whilst in his class. Getting into conflict won't help you or your dog. Your trainer probably is not going to change his mind. There are younger trainers coming up through the ranks that use food, but most still do not. There is still a great deal you can learn from your traditional trainer. If you want to use food rewards in your own training sessions at home, this will not harm your training, provided you keep to the standards your trainer has set. But your trainer won't be impressed, so don't bother sharing your successes with him. There are alternatives to food too. Retrieving, and opportunities to run free for short periods of time, also make good rewards. Many gundogs find praise and petting rewarding, though few would swap it for roast chicken! The important thing is to use any rewards appropriately, as rewards, and not as bribes. And to fade them out gradually (but not completely) as the new behaviour becomes established. Re-introduce the rewards every time you make an exercise much more difficult and fade them out again as your dog becomes fluent. Pippa
Re: Guinness' first gundog training one-to-one Thankyou for your replies so far. Pippa, I will follow your advice re the trainer! I am going out with Guinness when I finish work so I will keep you updated. Tom
Re: Guinness' first gundog training one-to-one Well, what a difference! My training session this afternoon consisted of me sitting Guinness, throwing a dummy, telling him to wait and then collecting it myself. Initially, he had trouble in staying where he was whilst I collected the dummy, but eventually he did so. His reward was a treat and a retrieve, which he did pretty well (I just need to make sure he doesn't release until told). His recall was spot on and his heel work was better. Overall, his attention was on me 80% of the time and not on sniffing the floor (a huge difference). He is still only 7 months old and hopefully with more days like today, he will come on no-end! Still on the training lead, but here's to progress! A bonus of today's training session was the barn owl hunting around us throughout, thank you to mother nature for that! thanks A happy Tom
