Ok..... so the good news is that Zac's random biting has gotten better. However, my 7 yr old daughter cannot seem to wear feety pjs without him going after her toes... but that is not our big issue. Our current challenge is two fold 1) Zac stands on his hind legs to look on the counter, table and stools - occasionally attempting to steal napkins, food or lick utensils. We are constantly saying "off" - but he doesn't respond consistently. So do I stop saying the command? Our trainer told us that the jumping up is somehow being reinforced, but I don't understand how. We pull him down, always fish out the object and he has not gotten food that we know of. I am confused - do I NOT say "off"? Ignore the behavior (and allow the counter to get licked?) When I am sitting at the counter, I will often make sure I have a treat and will reward when he responds to "off". I also make sure that he gets off AND lies down - so that he doesn't think jumping up and than off gets the treat. However - maybe he has strung them all together? It's just frustrating at 6am when i am trying to get lunches made for the day or at dinner time when I am trying to get dinner ready. and 2) flying leaps onto the couch and now our bed. He is not allowed on either. We get on the floor to play with him. Give him bones and toys on the floor. And consistently drag him off every time he leaps up. He has even taken to looking the other way - acting innocent and then BOLTING onto the couch. It's funny and frustrating at the same time. I am tempted to just let him stay up - but that is not what we want. Plus - he chews at the blankets and if anyone is lying on the couch, he chews at their hair. We just had a four day weekend and my husband was so frustrated that he said he was anxious to come back to work. He also said some not nice things about Zac which sent my daughter into hysterics.... sigh.. So - I know this is ridiculously long - but any insight or tips would be welcome.
Re: 4 months today - current challenges I haven't had the counter-surfing problem, but I would try rewarding Zac before he jumps up. What I mean is, get him to sit or lie down before you sit at the counter. Click and treat, or whatever your normal training/reward method is, and if he stays down do it again and keep repeating as long as he stays down. You probably want to do this in practise sessions rather than when you are actually preparing food! Just pretend to be busy and reward him for not jumping up in the first place. If he jumps up, stop, get up and get him to sit before you sit down again. Good luck
Re: 4 months today - current challenges [quote author=Zacbrownpup link=topic=9579.msg138257#msg138257 date=1421764292] flying leaps onto the couch and now our bed. He is not allowed on either. We get on the floor to play with him. Give him bones and toys on the floor. And consistently drag him off every time he leaps up. He has even taken to looking the other way - acting innocent and then BOLTING onto the couch. It's funny and frustrating at the same time. I am tempted to just let him stay up - but that is not what we want. Plus - he chews at the blankets and if anyone is lying on the couch, he chews at their hair. [/quote] Tatze did this until she was nine months old then suddenly stopped! We confused the issue by letting her on one couch but not the others, she's also allowed on just one chair in the other room - so she would leap on to the ones she wasn't allowed on. We just used to pop her lead on when she started this, but it took ages (months) for the penny to drop. Gypsy isn't allowed on any couches and now (8 months) she has just accepted it. She used to try and get on by sloping/slithering up. We did the same with her, popped her lead on until she was asleep on her day bed - which is right next to my couch. Now both go to their places when we go into the lounge - no questions I think it's a matter of being totally consistent and more determined than they are!
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Did you ever read other people's posts and think "wow - that's so obvious - how come I didn't think of that??!" I swear this that is me most of the time!! It reminds me of being a new mom...i think my brain is still somewhat scrambled from our little furry addition. I do try to work with him in the mornings while I am having my coffee, before I get started on prep, but I think I inadvertently wait until he jumps up to address it. And you are right - I need to dedicate more time to practicing while not in the midst of dinner, etc. Maybe I will set the table early - and work with him around it. same thing - set out items as IF I were preparing a meal and get have the time to devote to him, the clicker and treats. "totally consistent and more determined than they are" - Boogie - I just may have that tattooed on my arm!
Re: 4 months today - current challenges You also want to make sure that until he is reliable, everything on the counter is out of reach so that when he does jump up there is never any reward!
Re: 4 months today - current challenges I think you already have a solution to your problem The best approach to unwanted behaviour is to think up something else you do want them to do and then train them to do that instead, before they have a chance to perform the unwanted behaviour We have trained our dog to respond to a 'get out of the kitchen' cue. We have a clear line between in the kitchen and out of the kitchen - in is hard floor and out is carpet. When he's told to leave the kitchen he has to have all paws on the carpet. You could try something like that too - starting with a piece of tape marking the line that he has to be on the other side of. Or you can put a mat just outside the kitchen (but in sight of the action) that he gets rewarded for sitting on.
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Yes! Kirriegirl - this has been an adjustment that we are still working on as a family. Remembering that tasty morsels or tempting items (everything) cannot be thrown around with abandon! We have had some close calls with the "dog literally ate my homework" incidents recently. This may actually address the unrelated but equally maddening clutter issue in the house!!
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Oberon - great idea! We usually have a towel on the floor for his "bed" (since he cannot be in the living room unsupervised where his crate is) and we can try the "on your bed" command. Now just getting him to STAY there.....
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Just keep the treats flowing, and gradually increase the time between treats (practising when you are not busy and gradually adding distractions like food on the bench top).
Re: 4 months today - current challenges I've done what Rachael suggests with my two. I can't close them out of the kitchen because it's open plan, but there's a distinct division with kitchen tiles and wooden floor outside. They ONLY get treated when outside of the kitchen. At first, I used a piece of vetbed on the other side and used the "in your bed" cue, but after a while, I just changed this to "out of the kitchen", with a point, then just a point. They're pretty good now at staying out completely. When I'm preparing their meals, they tend to get excited and come in, but I've developed a strategy of immediately stopping what I'm doing, just standing there, arms crossed and staring at the ceiling. They soon get the idea and move themselves outside the threshold. Shadow is a bit of a trier and normally sneaks his front feet just inside, but I wiggle my finger at him in a "back up" kinda way, and he shifts back. Speaking of which, now we have that behaviour, I could use it with a place board to turn it into a real "back up"
Re: 4 months today - current challenges With jumping up on the counter, I used to push all food back out of the way and step away from the counter and not continue preparing food etc until all four paws were on the ground. I also treat when she sits nicely. This started by only being a few seconds between treats, to now I can bake cakes and decorate them (takes about 2 hours) and only need to treat once or twice
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Useful and practical advice from everyone. What helped me was my pup growing up, a bit, anyway. And I just relaxed. I don't care if he goes on the sofa. I just kept the counters clear, and he mostly gave up, although will still nick the oven glove from time to time. He'll counter surf to have a quick look now and then, and will stand, very quietly and seriously, with his paws up when I'm chopping up his treats - but since they are his treats, I reckon that's fair enough. It sort of turned into him moderating the worst behaviour, and me not stressing about the rest, and we rub along just fine now.
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Great perspective Julie....in many ways my Bella gets away with astonishing things...but in others we have strict no tolerance issues. It baffles my mother sometimes...but I figure...no 2 legged kids...so the 4 legged ones get a bit of spoiling and leniency. My Bella is encouraged on the sofa and bed...but must not touch a THING on the coffee table or counters....she can LOOK...but don't touch. We're working on jumping up on people...uninvited is one thing, invited is another. Some lines are more easily drawn than others.... : : :
Re: 4 months today - current challenges So Tuesdays are tough days for all of us because it is jam packed with us in and out of the house until at least 8pm. So Zac ends up in and out of his crate without a lot of devoted attention. His behavior last night was a reflection of this, I think. He was just riled up, not settling, biting and in general being a pain in the butt while we were in the living room. Add to that, that I was exhausted, had not sat down or changed out of my work clothes until 8:30pm and was in NO MOOD. I got angry and tossed him in his crate a few times, even while trying to treat good behavior. It just wasn't working and I ended up in tears. So I calmed down, made myself some tea, put my ear buds in cranking music and sat to read at the kitchen table. (took the couch out of the equation). He continued his nuttiness - table and counter surfing, jumping up on me, etc. But everything was cleared off and I ignored him and the behavior. Finally he laid down near my feet and I treated him sporadically. he would walk away, get a drink, play with a bone or toy and then come back - but I did the same thing - unless he was laying at my feet, i did not treat. And even then I did it quietly without much attention. My husband came in the kitchen, Zac started up again and he was addressing him saying "NO! Stop! Down! What are you doing?! Do you want to go back to your crate?" I just said "please leave him be - i am ignoring him and trying something". And back we went to our routine. So - what i want to know - in your collective opinion - was I doing the right thing? Or am I making a mistake in not addressing the bad behavior. I was honestly spent...
Re: 4 months today - current challenges I know your frustration so well!!!! : Sometimes they are just extra naughty...I'm trying to remember what the 3 Rs are.... I think it's REMOVE the distraction REDIRECT their attention and RETRAIN the behavior you want. I catch myself doing the whole "no...down...off...STOP IT....in your crate" kind of thing when I'm tired and my Bella is being belligerent and extra naughty. When I sit back and take a look at things...I realize the only good thing I can do is put her in her crate and walk away. (aka REMOVE). I try to catch myself and reward for doing the good things and ignore the bad. When she jumps, I turn my back to her and don't comment. When she takes something she shouldn't have I take it from her quietly and give her a better option. (aka REMOVE and REDIRECT). I usually feel better about it when I've stopped badgering her for everything she's done wrong....and instead focus on what she is doing RIGHT. Hang in there...I think you're headed in the right direction if you can be consistent about it. Zac will learn that quiet activities get him praise and attention....rowdy and boisterous activities get him NOTHING.
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Yes, you did the right thing. Clear the room so there is nothing the dog can grab so you have to give him attention and ignore him. You don't have to treat him. And it's best you don't in a way. Think of something that is going to mean to the dog "you are going to be ignored". You sitting reading at the kitchen table is ideal. Ignore the dog. When the dog is settled, get up and stop reading at the kitchen table, and give him a treat or have a little game. Go back to reading at the kitchen table, and ignore the dog. Dog settles, get up, give him some attention. Etc. etc. The idea is that you sat reading at the kitchen table means "nothing of any interest is going to happen". If you always do this, soon your dog will go to sleep when you sit down to read at the kitchen table. You can do the same with the TV being switched on, but that's harder. If I open my laptop, Charlie settles down.
Re: 4 months today - current challenges [quote author=Zacbrownpup link=topic=9579.msg138586#msg138586 date=1421857500] So - what i want to know - in your collective opinion - was I doing the right thing? Or am I making a mistake in not addressing the bad behavior. I was honestly spent... [/quote] I agree with JulieT - but in my humble opinion you are using far too many words. Or is that your husband? He will have a hard job picking out the actual commands out of all the words. I would use very simple commands - just 'sit' 'down' (for lying down) and 'off' for putting all four paws on the ground. No other words interspersed unless you are not actually wanting him to DO something. Whenever you want a behaviour, one word - clear - commands. I would use only treats to train, not time out - his crate needs to be a very happy place if he's in there a lot during the day. His attention seeking is boredom, I think, so I would get interactive toys and lots of different things to train, so that his brain is well used when you are there.
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Thank you all!!! Trial and error I suppose. Last night's example was hubby talking - but we can BOTH do that. You forget and get frustrated and just start blabbing! I suppose to the dog its much like the teacher from Charlie Brown.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
Re: 4 months today - current challenges I am so glad I came on here today and have seen this as reassures me that I am not the only one and I don't really have the dog from hell!!!! Phoebe is 16 weeks and I really thought last week we were turning a corner- things turned calmer and most things seems to have improved. How wrong was I? This week she has been biting more, jumping up constantly, crazily running around the house and jumping on the furniture. Twice this week I have been in tears because of her!!!! The other thing which she is doing more and more is trying to eat her own poo!!! I struggle with this and hopes she would have stopped by now but no! I try to make sure ahe doesn't get the opportunity by clearing it immediately but she is quite persistant - any tips anyone????
Re: 4 months today - current challenges Here's a link for an article on the main page about poo eating http://www.thelabradorsite.com/why-dogs-eat-poop-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/ I don't have trouble with Bella (nearly 20 weeks) eating her or her sister's poo...but duck poo...chicken poo...goat poo...feathers... : Ugh.... I guess if you are already being diligent about picking up after your girl...then maybe take a look at her diet in general...the article talks about flavors and fillers in their food a bit. When my Bella becomes "hell on wheels" in the evenings...I know I just need to spend some time with her. It's usually because she hasn't had much run around time for the day (she goes to work with my husband everyday. He takes her for quick potty break walks, but most of her day is just chilling around his desk or in her crate. I try to play some fetch games with her during the evening and spend a few minutes on training to help mentally tire her out - but some nights she needs more time to blow of her pent up energy....I do my best to channel it into acceptable behavior...but sometimes....
