I'm new to Labs and also to training a teenager I haven't raised as a puppy, so I'm feeling my way a bit. Simba is 8 - 9 months, not sure exactly of his birthday but that's close. My previous experience is training Border Collies, so he is much more mellow than my previous dogs. Phew! But he's also much bigger, and I find that I'm a bit more paranoid around him than I was around my other dogs. And Simba comes with some misbehaviours that I need to correct. He's pretty good, actually, but here's some examples: Mouthing/biting - he tugs on clothes, grabs hands, etc when wanting to play/excited. As well as snapping/grabbing at hands. Especially when you go to grab his collar to get him "off" someone or the couch. Not good. And it scares me a bit. I know this speaks to me of previous owners hauling him around by the collar or using it to muscle him around, but if he won't listen/respond to an "off" and grabs at your hand if you go for his collar, what to do? Jumping up - we ignore him when he's jumping up in excitement, etc and this is getting better. Paws up on the counter - never had a dog big enough to do this before. We have caught him a couple of times. First time my hubby found him with his head in the Parmesan cheese which was on the table (left the kitchen for a few moments while he was doing dishes and came back to find trespassing dog) and yesterday I caught Simba with paws up on the counter happily clearing off a plate that had been left by one of my kids, again after dinner (some training with kids AND dog needed, sigh). No come when call - he seems totally deaf to the "come". I have ordered Pippa's book and waiting for it to come in. I think to associate the recall with a whistle will be helpful, so hopefully this will help. Previous owner said she did not trust him off leash as he never came when called. And I see this around the house - if you call him to come to you he may/may not obey. Am working on him with treats on this, but any other ideas? Of course he particularly does NOT obey when he's doing something naughty. Say, he's picked something up off the floor he's not supposed to have. What I find works is to go to the closet where the treats are, calling him, and often he will come with said object still in mouth. I ignore object (grabbing it is useless, he'll never let it go), and I give him the "sit" command, which he does know well. Down goes the bum and he drops the object to get the treat. Works, but I'd rather have him give me the object on command. Humping - well, he seemed pretty good in this regard for the first couple weeks. He "tried it on" with my daughter ( she is our youngest, at 17) a little bit, but she's good with him and I think he's settling down with her. But my brother came to visit this weekend and for awhile it was a complete nightmare. Kept trying to mount him, my brother freaking out (doesn't help I know but telling him didn't help), pulling dog off my bro resulted in dog snapping at hands, and this kept going on and on. I could distract him with treats, so I went through several rounds of "sit, lie down, sit lie down" which he did just fine, but soon as I stopped it was back at my brother. I got my brother to do the sit/lay down with him, which Simba went along with, but again, soon his mind was on more amorous activities. I gave my brother a tin can with rocks to shake at him when the dog came after him (getting desperate at this point) but bro didn't exactly time it right so didn't work great. Finally resorted to putting the lead on the dog and having the lead on the rest of the afternoon. That way when he went after my bro and started mounting I'd be able to say a sharp "no!" and yank him off with the leash. This seemed to work pretty well (the look he gave me was pretty comical after the first time!) and he tried it a couple more times that night but by next day he seemed to have forgotten that particular obsession. Thankfully. He is getting neutered tomorrow, but I know that mounting isn't necessarily about sex, so again, any tips appreciated. That's it for now. Working on no pulling on lead, he's not bad with that but if anyone has any ideas?? Bottom line: just need some reassurance I'm on the right track and that this dog isn't going to become a monster I can barely control. He's too big a dog for me not to feel like he won't listen to me or for me not to trust him not to hurt someone. Lisa
Re: A couple general questions hi lisa, i wont be of any help to you, so just saying hello, i have never had a dog before i got my boy when he was 8 week old after several visits , he is now almost 6 months, the mouthing /biting /snapping as been horrendous ,with constant no from me, this as now come to an end, how ever he still mouths my son, who is 23, he does jump up on the counter, he as never been allowed to jump up when we are eating, you will get very good advice from this site, ; sounds to me that you are doing every thing you can, good luck keep us up dated please
Re: A couple general questions Hi Lisa, you seem to have whole catalogue of things to work on but all of them quite common behaviours in young untrained dogs. Rather than grabbing his collar to pull him off people and things you could try a house line. A long leash that Simba trails around attached to his collar whenever you are there to supervise him. Much better to use the long line to reinforce your 'off' command than grabbing his collar. I would also consider crate training him so that you can put him somewhere with a filled kong to keep him entertained where he is confined and can't bother your visitors. The recall is just a matter of lots and lots of training. I gave Helen the advice to hand feed her Charlie to help with the training and also to build a stronger bond and I believe she is seeing a difference in Charlie. So, hand feeding Simba for a few weeks or even months might help. The counter surfing will involve training your whole family not to leave any food out on the work top. Something I had to learn when I took on Murffi. He is only a fraction of the size of Simba but quite capable of jumping up on work tops and tables and clearing them within seconds. Best of luck with your new friend.
Re: A couple general questions Your pup may need somewhere to go when he is over excited or overwhelmed both for his sake and your guests. We used baby gates to fence off the kitchen as an alternative to the crate which we used when Riley was under about 6 months. As far as I can tell counter surfing is really hard to resolve it's best just to leave nothing out so there's no reward for that behaviour. Check out Pippa's most recent article on the three R's it may help you work out how you want to deal with each behaviour. The biting etc as long as it's not really bad in which case you may need some professional help from a behaviourist you will be best just stopping play and ignoring him until he behaves appropriately. Don't forget to reward him when he does what you want. You could train him to greet people by touching their hand with his nose either with a clicker or just treats on their own. Using the house line Heidrun suggests will also help I think, it's basically exactly what Heidrun says - a line attached to his collar differing from a lead as it doesn't have a loop that can get snagged as he cruises round the house.
Re: A couple general questions The foundations of recall training start by calling the dog when he is already coming. This sounds odd but will make sense when you have the book. In the meantime, be very careful not to call him, unless you know he wants to come. Then call like mad as he runs towards you. I completely agree with Heidrun about hand feeding and this is covered in Total Recall You are well on your way. You have already figured out the first stage in a 'trained retrieve'. Check out the rest of it here: The trained retrieve Lots on pulling here Your dog sounds quite boisterous, but that is pretty normal. It sounds as though you are on the right track. ;D Don't get disheartened. The important thing to remember is that It is impossible for an untrained dog to be disobedient. He is not trained yet. Read up on the principles of training , expect nothing to be instant, and work like mad on his training. You will be delighted to see how fast he learns. The humping in dogs is complex, but it can often be a part of play, rather than a sexual thing. And very often dogs do it with people that get them wound up with constant attention and stroking. Ask visitors to be aloof with him and ignore him, and put him in his own 'space' if he persists. You have to be well mannered to spend time with the guests! Pippa
Re: A couple general questions You are doing a really good job and loads of experience on here will help you.my dog is 8 months old so similar in age to Simba so a few of the things I guess you and I are experiencing together and are literally to do with age not Simba's previous experience. Dexter has stopped mouthing mostly now,he was 5 months when he came to us and he only did it in play when we were having a bit of a wrestle with him if he got overexcited.It could hurt sometimes though .i read up on it and several sources said say a loud ouch ,move away and ignore him until he calms down...this mimics the yelp one of his litter mates would have done if hed gone too far.it worked and more often than not Dex would be the one to move away looking suitably chastised until he forgot about it and came back to play again. He still jumps up at the initial greeting of people to our house,I put him behind the gate until they come in and he sees they aren't a threat( bit of barking goes on at this point but not too much)when he is calm I brief the visitor that I'm letting him out and that if he jumps they say a sharp down,push him off and turn their back on him...hes still doing it so is it working?no,I guess not but my theory is if I keep consistent one day the penny will drop.....I haven't got a lot of dog experience so Dexter and I are learning together ...hes not a bothersome dog so once he's checked visitors out he leaves them alone unless they want to interact with him.if he didnt pipe down I would be following the crate idea,it is great advice,Dex has a crate behind his gate and sometimes he just takes himself off into it.outside the house I have started making him sit when I can see something/somebody coming towards us that could potentially make him launch......this has got better and better ,although he will still try and jump when the interesting thing comes within a certain distance.....I can see a big improvement here so my consistency theory is working in this area. Paws on the counter,we haven't got kids so there is no food temptation ever left out for him,I've never seen him jump,up for food.....but this last week he is getting up by the sink to pinch the tea towels ......I immediately push him down and say no really loud,i really believe he understands no and that tone of voice if I get him as soon as he is doing the behavior......getting the tea towel off him is another thing all together,I try not to treat him because I think will he associate stealing the tea cloth with getting a reward?i open a drawer and rustle a carrier bag or some other fascinating distracting thing...and he comes running to see what im doing oh but god the temptation to just pull it off him! What I understand with the recall is that it does take time and perseverance...I have followed Pippa's training,I've cracked it in the house and garden he always comes when called ......I totally keep him on his toes,you will,often find me hiding from him and you can see he's bothered if he doesn't know where I am.outside he only comes when he wants to.......that sounds bad but it's not,I'm following pippa's steps and he will always come back when I change direction ,I'm just not up to the point of giving him the command and insisting on his return yet,smells,people ,bikes,used tissues distract him and I don't want to set him up to fail....for me nothing is quick I just keep plodding on with good days and not so good days( although i am so proud of him tonight,Husband took him out in our gated community park,no dogs off leads......a security man was there and Dex was off his lead and he came immediately when called)so again perseverance and consistency is working there,I know it's will for you too No humping yet.....so can't help but sounds like you have it covered in part with the op!someone else will be able to advise you I'm sure if its an ongoing problem Dexter is our pet so we aren't planning any advanced training we just want good manners ,safety and obedience ,enjoy Simba it's so satisfying when something clicks.i am in utter awe of some of the skills I see discussed and performed on here. Bye for now
Re: A couple general questions Hi Lisa, Charlie is a rescue Lab x Pointer and has been shall we say a challenge Absolutely the hand feeding is the best piece of advice ever given to me and I have seen a marked improvement in Charlie's behaviour and obedience because he has to work for every scrap of his daily food. Example, I was doing some recall indoors late one night when David arrived home from work, just as he entered and Charlie was just about to greet in his usual over exuberant manner I verbally recalled him, he put the brakes on whipped round and came straight to me for some dinner I am following Pippa's Total Recall and Clicker training, all of which are helping enormously. Emmm counter surfing, Charlie ate David's dinner about 30 minutes ago ;D I would suggest tackling the things that are most important such as the recall and lead work and not trying to train everything all at once as it just becomes over whelming. Don't give yourself a hard time with lots of hard work you will get there, but it will take time and patience oh and a bit more patience We are all here to help and believe me I have asked 100's of questions . Good luck and keep going. Helen xx
Re: A couple general questions He's a gorgeous boy and obviously big and strong. The great thing about labs is, they generally want to please, but you are working at a disadvantage because he has had next to no training so far. As already said, he is not being bad or disobedient - he just hasn't learnt how to behave yet. Don't get despondent - you can do it! And everyone here will be very happy to help with advice and support! We've cracked harder cases than yours... ;D
Re: A couple general questions I cant add to the already brilliant advice Lisa , it is more difficult with an older puppy but you can do it, honestly you can
Re: A couple general questions Thanks so much everyone....lots to take in. I have one of those long leads so I will use it if needed. Really that was the only time he was humping out of control like that, so not sure exactly what the trigger was but hopefully it will not happen again. Re: the crate. Yes, I LOVE using a crate - it truly was a sanity saver in my previous dog training experience. However, I'm going slowly with that right now as I get the feeling that Simba's previous owner did not use the crate properly ie it was a bit of a punishment place for him. So, I have a crate - the one that I used with my old dog. It was one I won at a pet store contest and was the "large" size - too big for my BC but he got used to it, but perfect size for this boy! I put it on my deck facing my kitchen sliding doors. He was very leery of it at first but I kept it very non-threatening and left treats in it which he would lean in to to get. I also have fed him in the crate - putting the bowl at the very back so he has to go all the way in to eat it. Working fine. Today I sat outside while he ate and shut the door behind him, as soon as he was done and turned around I let him out. He didn't seem stressed about it. So I think that's going fine. I will be getting his old crate from the previous owner (hopefully) once she's back from holidays so I hope to be able to put that one in the house. I will definitely keep up the crate training as I do believe it will be a life saver. Big sigh. Things are going well, I guess for the most part. My biggest worry about all this, and the part that's getting me stressed?? We (my hubby and I and my daughter) are heading out for summer vacation in the second week of July. For six weeks. My two boys (22 and 20) will be home, but working all day. This is precisely the reason why we were not planning on getting another dog until the fall, when we were back. I feel like I'm doing all this training that will completely go out the window while I'm gone, as my boys are, well, not as committed, shall we say, to this whole enterprise of dog training. However, the boy whose girlfriend this dog belonged to in the first place is definitely a little more on board with the project, to be sure! So.... hoping to get him crate trained so that, ideally he can be put in crate for the morning, and I will find someone to come let him out at lunch and take him for a walk each day. Then he will have to stay in yard until son #1 gets home around 4. I am also hoping to get a dog walker or friend to come give him a longer walk in the afternoons maybe 3x a week. Also plenty of chew treats for when he's alone in the yard/crate. :-\ It's just putting extra stress on me to try to help Simba settle in and have some rudimentary manners so that somehow we can survive the summer without my yard being dug/chewed to pieces and my house destroyed. I know, deep breath! One thing at a time and focus on positives! Off to look up some of those links!!
Re: A couple general questions I just want to say that I think you are doing really well and that it will get better When we got our boy, Obi, he had learned a lot of behaviours that we found difficult - like mouthing (hard), whining and barking at us, pulling on the lead, chewing clothing while we were wearing it.... But these things have all improved out of sight with training. The kinds of things that people have outlined here do work. We found a crate very helpful too for a while, and now we no longer need it. Our dog is now a pleasure to live with (94.5% of the time). So - take heart - it will get better - a lot better!! The plan that you have for him while you are away sounds fine. You have long enough to re-train him to the crate so it's a positive, restful place for him. The lunchtime walking plan sounds good. A few hours in the garden in the afternoon will be fine before human time again at 4. All that is quite possibly more attention and structure than he was getting before. He may not progress much while you are away but that's ok - just pick up where you started. Also - I wonder if there is a doggy day care option near you that he could go to a couple of days a week? Day care is great for producing a quiet, sleepy dog!
Re: A couple general questions Your plans sound good, Lisa. You didn't expect to have a dog like this, or at this time, so now you just have to do the best you can, while not sacrificing your family life or your sanity completely! You are doing a very good thing, taking him on, so just breath deeply, and have faith that your sons will deal with things!!!!
Re: A couple general questions I have chatted with someone about doing daily walks at lunch - a good, reliable young man who I trust, and it sounds like he'll be able to do it for me. I also have another young man I can likely call upon (my vet's son ) so things are looking up on that front. Yipee!! Thanks for all the encouraging comments....my boy is at the vet today getting neutered....poor guy! So the house is quiet...and having a break from the constant vigilance is kinda nice I have to say. I am thinking of following Pippa's suggestions for clicker training for the "heel" but have a couple questions about it. I have never used a clicker before, so this would be a new experience for me too. Can anyone give me any advice on that - how it's gone for them? And also, seeing as I will be away so long this summer, should I just start when I get back in the fall? I have to confess that although I managed to raise two Border Collies into very nice dogs one thing I was never very good at was the no pulling aspect of the walk. Eventually I used a halti collar on my last dog, and once he got used to it, it worked fine. Simba is actually fairly good at the no pull, except of course when we see other dogs/people. Then it's all about going to say hello, and although I can stop him from doing that now, that won't always be the case as he gets bigger (gulp). He's too big a dog for me not to trust him on walks so I do need to get him so that he'll listen and walk nicely. Simba today at weigh-in: 65 lbs/30 kgs. How does that compare with the male Labs you all own? Just trying to get a sense of where I'm heading with this dog in terms of size/weight, etc. He's currently 8-9 months old. Break it to me gently....
Re: A couple general questions Well Simba is already bigger than my two year old boy who's 26kgs. My parents-in-law have a male lab who's 35kgs and some on this website are bigger than that Riley was probably around 22/23kgs at 9 months. The do all vary quite a bit! I'd have thought you can start having fun with your clicker training now, you've got around 4 weeks before you're off right? Go for it, you'll be amazed how much you'll achieve
Re: A couple general questions i use the clicker , doing well with it, we have loads of fun, also i am on the first stage of pippas book, , just taking it slow one step at a time, seems to be working well, i dont leave home with out my whistle, jasper is due a weigh in on saturday the vet as estimated he will be 25 kg , he is almost 6 month, he is also a big boy, he is booked in to be neutered next month hope all goes well for him with his op
Re: A couple general questions Well Lisa,sounds like as well as a lovely dog in your life there are quite a few nice young men!well done you! Hope Simba's was ok when you picked him up? I've never trained a dog before( never owned a dog before) I was introduced to clicker training at puppy obedience classes without any of the explanation of charging the clicker that Pippa gives,so I started 'wrong' really but have still found it effective for what I need.i believe if you follow Pippa's instructions then you will certainly have success.I probably treat Dex more than I should at this stage,penny seems to be dropping with most things( except the pulling,will come to that in a min) at lot of the time it's me that needs the training to train him! Pulling.....bane of my life! Dex had 2 short walks when he first came to us( 5 minute rule so he had 20 mins)i persevered for the first 2 months doing the morning walk....he would pull I would stop,he would pull I would stop,I looked ridiculous and it was blummin tedious but I was prepared to stick with it if it worked.Then I brought the clicker in ,when we stopped I would wait until he turned to look at me,say heel,click and treat, when he made a move back to me,slow ,slow steps though took ages to get him to let the lead go loose and come completely back to me. Rewards became bribes as i know i was relying on them too heavily.I also realized as well that my husband and I weren't consistent.Thats really important when you are trying to crack this.Chris was walking him on the evening walk on one of those horrible flexi leads that run out so Dexter was totally doing what he wanted.....big dos,little dos,mum and dad came on holiday and talked me into a sensation harness....It felt like a cheat and I was failing but after having tears with my Mum one day over it I gave in.i was starting to dread our walks.it hasn't cured it by any means ,he still intends to pull me but the harness reminds him to reign it in a bit.Ive started doing some of his training in the park now( at quiet times as he is great in our house and garden,heels on and off the lead) but park is a challenge but getting better,I'm consciously trying to reduce the treats ( it's kibble out his food allowance.....can't believe he still responds to it and isn't bored to tears!)he heels when he knows he is being 'trained' but the minute we just try and walk he pulls and if another dog comes along he can nearly launch in the air.......but we are training a sit and wait for that ....another work in progress!as usual from me not much practical assistance more just anecdotal what we are going through.... Simba's is going to be a big boy Dexter is the same age and he was 22 kgs last week.....think that's about average,but others here will correct me if im wrong and help you with that.by show line lab looks he probably looks a bit lean and can't tell you how many people ask me if he is a 'pure' lab or crossbreed ( to which I launch into a anthropolical history of working line labs...as much as I know!!!)I think they are just used to seeing more chubby labs,we will alway keep Dex lean....in fact we are away for 2 weeks from this weekend and I will probably reduce his food a little so he doesn't put on if his minder is a bit more generous than we are! Hope that helps ,this forum is fantastic for training advice,I read everything even if its not relevant to what Dex and I are doing as I find it so fascinating,everyone is kind and wants you to succeed so you will gets lots of help Best wishes Angela
Re: A couple general questions I am not expert (ha ha) and tried some clicker training and some whistle training. I tend to get so far then find I don't have the time and it goes a bit pear-shaped. The good thing I can say though, is that watching in particular Heidrun's videos with a bit of whistle peeping in it, in spite of the fact we may not have used the whistle for a couple of months, Lilly knows EXACTLY what it means. From snoozy dog to ears pricked, alert, rushes over to laptop. I would definitely start now and lay the foundations of either clicker or whistle training - I am sure it won't be all lost. Good luck, and have fun! (once he has recoverd ) jacqui
