Hi All, So my first weekend with Zulu went really well. Last night I was up with Zulu for most of the night, but i guess that is to be expected with a young puppy (just short of 8 weeks old). Last night consisted of the following: 9pm: Zulu was sleeping in the lounge while we watched tv 10pm: I woke up Zulu, took him for a walk outside, he made a wee 11pm: Zulu settled in his crate 12:15am: Zulu was crying, so I took him outside for a wee and a little walk around the patio 1:15am: Zulu finally settles in his crate 2am: : Zulu was crying, so I took him outside for a wee and a little walk around the patio and he settled in in crate 3am: My son (1.5 years) wakes up and wakes up Zulu, who starts crying, so I take Zulu outside for a week and a walk around the patio 3:15am: As I don’t want to Zulu to walk up the kids, I go sleep in the lounge with Zulu. Zulu has his lead on, which is attached to a sturdy table, he settles in the lounge on his mat. 5:30am: Zulu and I wake up and decide to get up for the day, I take him outside for a wee and a poo So that was my night last night… not much sleep, and the little I did have was broken… before I type any further, let me go grab a STRONG Coffee.. Ahhh, that’s better! With the above in mind I have some questions.. 1: Does this seem like a normal night for such a young puppy? I guess things like separation anxiety (from his mum and myself) as well as the need to make a wee wake up him evey hour or so? 2: Is it ok to have a designated area in the house (apart from his play pen), where you can have his lead on him, which is attached to something secure? i.e like I did last night when I slept in the lounge with him. He has a place in the lounge where he loves and always settles so well. 3: Any other advice you guys have to tried get puppy to sleep through longer period during the night? Obviously if this is normal for this age, then I really don’t mind.. but I don’t want to be developing any bad habits such as getting up up for his as soon as he cries, or moving him to the lounge and sleeping nearby etc. 4: Is it wise to give Zulu a kibble stuffed chew toy or a treat in the middle of the night to get him into his crate (when he does really feel like going there himself)? 5: At night, could you leave a little light on in his room to help him settle? For some reason the light on helped him a little (opposed to it being pitch black) 6: Any suggestions for a good night time route for puppy?i.e take him out for a wee, then give him a kibble stuff chew toy, stay with him in the room till he settles, the sneak off Also, the reason I get up so quickly when he cries is also due to the fact that I have young kids (1.5 and 3.5) and the last thing I want is to have the whole house wife awake at 1am. Look forward to hearing from you guys. Regards, Robbie
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Well...I'm afraid I treated Charlie on his first night the way my mum had taught me - which seems very old fashioned now. I tucked him up in bed at 11pm after a last pee and poo, in his long term confinement arrangement, with a bed made up of vet bed smelling of his mum, a radio on, and a stuffed toy. And left him there until 4.45 am when i got up for the day (I made this 15 mins later each week). No coming down, no sleeping with him, nothing like that. I do think this has advantages (not least I got a reasonable sleep). Charlie has never made any kind of noise during the night (because no-one comes even if he does). And toilet training turned out fine. I don't think this is the way people tend to do it, these days. I have to say though, I'd do exactly the same with my next pup. [quote author=Robbiep link=topic=5029.msg63067#msg63067 date=1395612882] 1: Does this seem like a normal night for such a young puppy? I guess things like separation anxiety (from his mum and myself) as well as the need to make a wee wake up him evey hour or so? No - see above. 2: Is it ok to have a designated area in the house (apart from his play pen), where you can have his lead on him, which is attached to something secure? i.e like I did last night when I slept in the lounge with him. He has a place in the lounge where he loves and always settles so well. I think not, this is just confusing. He should be in his permanent sleeping space overnight. although I know some people have pups in bedrooms for the first few nights. 3: Any other advice you guys have to tried get puppy to sleep through longer period during the night? Obviously if this is normal for this age, then I really don’t mind.. but I don’t want to be developing any bad habits such as getting up up for his as soon as he cries, or moving him to the lounge and sleeping nearby etc. 4: Is it wise to give Zulu a kibble stuffed chew toy or a treat in the middle of the night to get him into his crate (when he does really feel like going there himself)? No, out for pee and poo and back to sleep - crying at night should not be rewarded by cuddles, playtime, toys or food. If you are going to get up, out for toilet and back to bed, and that's it. 5: At night, could you leave a little light on in his room to help him settle? For some reason the light on helped him a little (opposed to it being pitch black) I do not think lights help, a radio might. Dogs are not usually scared of the dark, their night vision is much better than ours. 6: Any suggestions for a good night time route for puppy?i.e take him out for a wee, then give him a kibble stuff chew toy, stay with him in the room till he settles, the sneak off No nonsense - out for pee, quick cuddle goodnight, and go. Also, the reason I get up so quickly when he cries is also due to the fact that I have young kids (1.5 and 3.5) and the last thing I want is to have the whole house wife awake at 1am. Regards, Robbie [/quote]
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Thanks for the advice! I think perhaps i could have been getting puppy a little too excited. In the middle of the night i was rewarding him for making a wee in his designated outside area (i got excited and gave him treats - this has helped with his designated outside toilet). I will try your advice and keep his toilet breaks short and too the point. What i might also do is move his confinement area of the far end of the house, as i dont want him waking the kids up. For sleep times, do you allow puppy access to the whole long term confinement area of just his crate? We did get a little blanket from the breeder, which was used by puppy's mum, which is in his crate.
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Yes, toilet breaks during the night should be just that (ok to reward going outside, but don't turn it into a play session - don't want nighttime play to be the norm). [quote author=Robbiep link=topic=5029.msg63075#msg63075 date=1395614467] For sleep times, do you allow puppy access to the whole long term confinement area of just his crate? [/quote] This is where I think you need to be clear what method you are following. You need to be clear whether: A) you are confining puppy to a crate, so he will try to hold pee and poo - in which case you need to get up and let him out to toilet before he fails to hold it. It's just not right to have a pup soil his sleeping area. Or B) you have decided to allow your pup to pee and poo on newspapers, separate from his bed, and need to make the extra effort with toilet training to overcome this disadvantage. So he should not be confined to his crate. I used method B. Lots of people use A.
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Julie you say you use plan b. how did you train your pup to then hold it till morning ?
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed [quote author=Carebear32 link=topic=5029.msg63079#msg63079 date=1395615876] Julie you say you use plan b. how did you train your pup to then hold it till morning ? [/quote] Just massive rewards for going outside and encouraging him to think of his whole pen as his "den" - feeding him in there and so on. It's the same as a divided crate, but with the (in my view small) disadvantage of getting a pup to adopt a larger space as a den - which is the same mechanism that stops them peeing and pooing in a crate. He peed on his newspapers for a few nights. But he was dry overnight very quickly, and no problems since then. This worked just fine. It's the method set out by Ian Dunbar in "before and after getting your puppy". Lots of people go with A because it's easier to have a pup think of a smaller space as one they must not soil. But B worked just fine for me.
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed What i forgot to mentioned in my initial post was that Zulu slept just about slept straight through on both Friday and Saturday night, from about 11pm till 4:30am, with perhaps one toilet break, so im not sure what changed on Sunday night. Silly question.. do you allow your puppy access to water over night? I thought of perhaps giving their last bit of water and food at 6pm, then no more water after that, but i obviously dont want puppy crying in the night because he is thirsty.
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed It's been a long time since I've had a puppy, but I did find a hot water bottle wrapped up in a snugly towel helped for the first little while. And I agree, the toilet breaks are just getting up to let the pup out and then right back into the crate, no fun and games. It's early days yet, you'll get through it soon and things will settle down!
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Sounds like a normal night to me! The first week almost of having murphy at 8 weeks consisted of nights like that! I had him just in his crate overnight and would go down regularly to let him out for a wee but with no other interaction. I would try and go down before he had started crying rather than go down when he was, so he wouldnt associate crying with me coming to see him. And then i would gradually make my times to go down and let him out later. On the first couple of nights i would lie by his crate until he feel asleep and then creep away and gradually changed that to standing by his crate for a bit etc. i also left classic fm radio on for him quietly at night and a baby night light on which for him seemed to help. He still has both now at 10 months but im sure he doesnt need it!
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Frankie makes an important point. Try and pre-empt toilet breaks. Puppies think *I cry = someone will let me out* Hence a rod for your own back We went for the alarm in the night which was slowly extended. I think first few days sleeping with pup okay but after that he needs to learn to settle and be on his own. The odd night time accident is normal. Just keep a good record of when, to help set your alarm for thr right interval.
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed I went for same approach as Julie. Late bed time with wee, then early rise next morning. No speaking to or interaction with pup. Both spent first few nights next to me in their crates. First pup cockerelled the entire second night, half hearted attempt next night, then slept right through thereafter. Second pup same routine made one little peep first night and that was it - possibly because the tiniest whimper was greeted by a low shurrup grumpy rumble from either his big sister, or my sisters dog...he learnt very quickly from the other dogs that one does not shriek when its sleep time...
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed I had Brew in her crate in my bedroom for the first few nights, and used an alarm clock. No, I didn't leave water in with her overnight. I didn't lift her water bowl particularly early though - some people do lift the water bowl up an hour or so before bedtime. I think puppies and small children have much in common - if they think that they can get away with an extra sneaky play or one more story during the night, they'll happily try for it ;D. Keep any night time excursions to the garden quiet, calm and to minimum duration. I really do understand that you will be quick to jump up to Zulu if he wakes as you don't want the children to be woken up, but they could probably sleep through more than you'd think! And it won't take Zulu very long at all to suss out that you get him quickly if he makes a noise at night... Hope you get more sleep tonight! Clare
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Hi, I had my best night sleep yet last night, although it was kind of a night of 2 halves. I stop feeding my pup (9 weeks old tomorrow and had him 1 week tomorrow) at around 6pm so that when I put him to bed at 11pm he should of managed to empty the majority of what has gone in during the day. Last night I took him out for a wee and a poo at around 10.30pm so I could settle him down for 11.00pm. Because we have only been crating for approx. 5 nights I still give him a couple of treats on his bed inside of his crate. so normally he goes in no problem, last night however he barked and barked for approx. 1.5 hours so I got up took him outside without saying anything (don't think he done anything) I then put him back in his crate but this time with a hot water bottle wrapped in item of clothing I had been wearing. I then never heard a peep out of him until I woke him at 6am to put him outside. His crate was also clean which was the first night. So I am now thinking I have a routing beginning to develop but the hot water bottle wrapped in item of my clothing really did seem to settle him instantly. I hope it works out for you. Thanks
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Puppies will cry at night to begin with and if you reward that with your attention then they will continue to do it. I had my pup in a box beside my bed so that I could dangle my arm in. He didn't stir til about 5am when I took him out for a wee then back to bed. Very quickly, within a week he was sleeping through until 8am. So if all else fails and you are worried he will wake the children, then perhaps have his crate beside you in the bedroom, it won't be long before you can have it back downstairs. Having a puppy and small children is very hard work, but the rewards do eventually come ;D
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed When we got Hattie she went out for her last wee about 11 pm, into her crate and let out at 6 am for a wee and then breakfast. She cried the first night but we did not go and see her and she never cried again and slept all night every night without any toilet breaks. The old fashioned way for us too but it worked. When she reached 6 months we put the crate away and never had any issues. Guess we were lucky
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Hi Robbie, as you are intending to let your puppy wee and poo indoors whilst you are at work, and will have a pen to keep him safe, there is no real benefit to you in shutting your puppy in a crate at night. The purpose of night crating is a) to avoid the puppy ever toileting indoors, and b) to prevent him hurting himself or damaging your stuff during the night. You have a pen, so b) is not relevant, and your puppy will need to toilet indoors anyway as you are leaving him alone during the day. So, it makes perfect sense for you to use Julie's method, and I recommend you do.
Re: A good night time routine - advice needed Hi All, Thanks for all the advice… last night with Zulu was MUCH better! 1: Played with him for quite a bit outside (tire him out), 2: 7pm dinner 3: He slept till 9:30pm, then toilet break, went back to sleep at 10pm 4: I woke him up at 1am for a toilet break 5: I woke him up at 330am for a toilet break 6: I woke him up at 530for a toilet break I think it made a HUGE difference waking him up (instead if him whining and waking me up). Every time I woke him up I could see he really didn’t want to get out of bed and go outside for a wee, so it was a quick wee (no chit chat or playing), then back to bed (I think he was still half asleep). When I woke him up for the 2nd time, at 330am, he had this look in his eyes saying “aarrhh not again, do I REALLY have to go outside for a wee?” I will start increasing the toilet intervals by 10-15mins Cheers, Robbie
