Afternoon everyone hope you are enjoying your Boxing Day!! I wonder if anyone can suggest a simple way to teach 'close' as this is our next bit of training with Charlie. We would, if possible like him to stay in a 10 - 20 meter off lead radius until we release him to "go play" difficult I think with Charlie but we would like to give it a go. When Charlie's lead is removed he will mostly wait until he is released "OK" but then he sprints off : but ideally we would like him to control himself : Maybe we have left this too late or should have trainined it before off lead :-\ We would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you xxx
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Ours both stay within 10/20 metres. The way I do it is to make sure they have no idea where I am going so that they have to keep an eye on me. Our walks are completely unpredictable. I go on different paths every day, change direction often and try to hide from them at least twice a walk. So they keep a very close eye out, even when hoolying!
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Thanks Mags, we do this which helps but lets not forget that Charlie literally runs on rocket fuel so it's pretty impossible to keep this up I'm kind of hoping for a command that we can teach and reward, wishful thinking : x
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' I can't do the about turn walk either - my dog is too confident and I also don't have enough safe space in London to do it. I'm not comfortable having my dog out of my sight. When my Charlie got back off lead after crate rest he would take off when his lead came off, and then be completely and utterly distracted by smells and other dogs for the rest of the walk. He'd check in time to time, but he really wasn't all that bothered where I was, it used to make me despair a bit - like I really didn't matter much to my dog. I started rewarding every slight bit of attention, with a clicker - any movement towards me, even if his head turned just slightly in my direction at all. At first, he wouldn't come back for the treat, but would start checking in more. I started this in August 2014 - six months later, I reckon I've spent upwards of 200 hours, and tons of chicken, rewarding for attention on me when we are outside. Without distractions now he'll more often than not choose to walk at heel and certainly wouldn't go more than about 10m away. With distractions, eg walking with other dogs with a lot of scent around, it's still a work in progress, but I'm certainly seeing a heap of improvement. Another 300 hours or so and I hope I'll have it cracked - perhaps by August 2015.... Plus a stack of games to make me interesting...tug, whipit, catch, find it...
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Thanks Julie, there are so many distractions here in the country and of course Charlie is not interested in any type of games and I have put 3 years into trying but I reckon clicking and treating for any glimpse in our direction could work and certainly worth a try as he is far more interested in us than he used to be and checks in regularly. To achieve the 10 - 20 meter radius would we use a command like "close" so that he knows what we want?
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' I don't have a cue for staying by me and checking in as I just want him to do it all the time. So it's not really like putting something on cue, it's more that it just became what he does - or getting that way in familiar places, anyway, we've a way to go in other circumstances. I have a "go free" cue, but even on a "go free" I want him to stay close and check in. So even when I've said "do as you please" I still want him to check in. I started with other dogs around (I had no choice) - I didn't get much to reward at first. But I kept doing it, and kept doing it. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's been months and hundreds of hours so far though.
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Helen,im with you,I could improve on this ....I struggle with variety of walks for Dexter...there's only a few areas of desert I will use because of the poisoning worry and the management of our community are dishing out £1000 fines now if your dog is seen off lead in our local parks.Dexter was starting to roam as he was so confident of the area and I was getting complacent if I'm honest....Dexter does check in regularly but he's further away than he should be ( I think about Heidrun sometimes when he's ahead of me and know she would be horrified ;D ) I started doing the about turn walk from Pippas article and it does work but you need to be really consistent ,something we fall down on because Chris walks him too ;D What Julie has described is what I did when I was getting my 'look at me ' cue .....and it really worked for that....Now Dexter retreives more I can hold his interest better....but he still gets bored so I have to judge how many he gets ...... I know you had a meltdown over a rabbit skin dummy but I also have one of those in my back pack....when he's too far away and he checks in I get it out and waggle it at him and say 'what have I got' he is back to me in a shot ....he gets 2 throws then.....any more and I run the chance of him charging off having a kill it hoolie.....so it's a 'game' of sorts that might help Charlie but it won't work if he goes stratospheric over it....
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' If you have that desire to play with rabbit skin - you can use it. In a game where he is allowed to kill it, but the rabbit skin stays with you (and the dog stays too). You don't have to throw it, you can build up desire for games other than fetch....
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Dexter, I think Heidrun is talking more about spaniels who should quarter closely in front of you. It is different for Labs. Many trainers have their Labs walking at heel all the time. I let my dogs range, but if I jinx suddenly up a path or even into a bush, they are with me in a second.
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Hi Angela, yes the turn about definitely helps as it makes Charlie check back on us and when we disappear he is quite worried and wants to find us, it's just very difficult to sustain with a very high energy dog I used a rabbit skin dummy with Charlie about 18 months ago and I have never seen anything like it, he ran off with it and literally went crazy and I couldn't get it off him which is odd as I had trained with a rabbit skin ball :-\ Do you mean a sort of game of tug with it Julie? xx
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' It could be tug - but anything really. Just a game that's fun. The older the dog is without a habit of play, the harder it is though (according to my trainer, anyway). You can buy rabbit skin tuggers.... https://tug-e-nuff.co.uk/bungee-tug-toys/tug-e-nuff-dog-gear-rabbit-skin-bungee-tug.html
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' The closest thing I have taught my dogs to what you are trying to train for, Helen, is a sort of slightly relaxed off lead heel walk. The dogs are still within almost touching distance either side or just behind me. I feel that any further away and any hunting bred dog will automatically fall into hunting mode. My spaniels are hunting bred and so is Charlie, those guys find it hard if not impossible to find some sort of mooching about mode. This is the furthest I would allow them away from me unless they are retrieving or quartering (controlled hunting).
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Thanks for the link Julie they look good fun Ah I see Heidrun, I'm thinking a relaxed off lead walk will be quite impossible for Charlie, Hattie does this no problem but unless there is a shortage of rocket fuel I don't think Charlie could be trained to do this : that's why I was thinking upto about 20 meters might be a better distance :-\ x Thank you
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' Helen, dogs don't come with much more hunting drive than my spaniels. That's the whole idea about keeping them this close when I don't want them to hunt. At 20 meters away from me they would be well and truly flying.
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' I really understand what you are saying but 20 meters is better than 100 meters, Charlie doesn't even walk and I mean never walks, he runs or canters Probably quite impossible really
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' [quote author=charlie link=topic=9245.msg132745#msg132745 date=1419689739] I really understand what you are saying but 20 meters is better than 100 meters, Charlie doesn't even walk and I mean never walks, he runs or canters Probably quite impossible really [/quote] I think it is impossible for some dogs to just mooch about, even at a relatively short distance.
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' I understand what Heiden means. It's better to keep a hunting dog close where you have more control than at even a slight distance, where if they get a scent they could be off before you can do anything. The closer they are the easier to anticipate what they might do. (Sorry if that's not right Heidrun) Sorry if I've missed something Helen but why do you think it would be easier to teach close at 20 metres rather than next to you ? I know Charlie sets off like a bat out of hell but would he come back and walk close if you carried the rabbit skin dummy or a rabbit skin bungee, like Julie's suggested, and allowed a game of tug every so often. You could use the rabbit skin to get him to check in with you. When he reaches your preferred distance call him or get his attention and allow him to play tug with the rabbit skin then release. Eventually (hopefully) he will start to automatically check in for the rabbit when he reaches that distance. You could then introduce a cue and fade out the rabbit for treats. Hope that makes sense although not sure it helps. :
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' [quote author=heidrun link=topic=9245.msg132747#msg132747 date=1419691091] [quote author=charlie link=topic=9245.msg132745#msg132745 date=1419689739] [/quote] I think it is impossible for some dogs to just mooch about, even at a relatively short distance. [/quote] I second that 100% Heidrun [quote author=Jen link=topic=9245.msg132748#msg132748 date=1419691278] Sorry if I've missed something Helen but why do you think it would be easier to teach close at 20 metres rather than next to you ? [/quote] I just thought that giving Charlie a little space might work better than at heel, not that it would really be any easier to teach. I think the rabbit skin bungee toy that Julie linked looks good and to train as you have both advised as Charlie does quite like the rabbit skin ball, so it might just work, as always worth a try Thank you it makes perfect sense xx
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' i have noticed that millie has started to run further away when she is let off lead can not always see where she is as the woods are quite dense but she comes back if i call her but i would like to know more about getting her to stay close i take a handfull of her kibble to use as treats and she does come right back of her own accord then i treat her not always i have a clicker but not sure when to use it if she is far away
Re: A Simple Way to Teach 'CLOSE' This is very interesting. I have been wondering how much exercise my dog needs and maybe that is part of the problem being discussed here. If I keep her on the lead for a 20 / 30 / 40 minute walk then is that good enough with a 5 minute chasing of a ball in a controlled space or does she need to be free and to run around and do her thing where she might get out of control. I certainly worry about my hyper active GSD. She is not like a spaniel, running running, but she has boundless energy - even the kennels commented on it. We live by the New Forest so we have miles to roam but she runs and barks at other dogs and chases deer so walks are not enjoyable as they are with my other dogs. I have to constantly watch for other dogs and deer if she is off lead. I put her on the lead a lot now (with a halter as she has pulled me over before when I did not have one) but I still feel she needs her time off. Occasionally those sneaky deer will lurk in a dip just in front of you that you did not think could hide a rabbit or some unsuspecting owner will appear from behind a distant bush and so I started to wonder if I always kept her on the lead is that OK?
