Accidentally reinforcing behaviour?

Discussion in 'Labrador Behavior' started by Leanne82, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    now I’m not sure if I’m giving the little maggot too much credit or if I’m seeing what isn’t there but...

    Maslow has a thing for doorstops.. totally playful but growls and barks and throws himself around on them.. exceptionally cute but I figured I probably don’t want a full sized doorstop attacker so figured it would be good practice to try and work with it. So..

    Maslow attacks the door stop (barking and clawing at it)

    I tell him to leave, he comes IMMEDIATELY and I treat him... he then goes back to it. I say leave again and he comes straight back again and sits for his treat.

    I then distract him and it’s all over BUT what’s to stop an association with chewing the doorstop to get the treat? Or am I overthinking it?

    This is more musings than a real issue btw!
     
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  2. Beanwood

    Beanwood Registered Users

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    Oh, I am not very good with things like this...I think I made some early boobs along the way! :D

    I think I would be giving a toy to distract Maslow when he comes back to you, then quickly removing the doorstop temporarily so he can't return to chew it. Long-term I would probably replace the doorstop with something he cannot chew or pick up.
     
  3. Kobe

    Kobe Registered Users

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    We went through this at this age - 10 weeks until about 14 weeks. We had a corner in the garden with a poisonous yew tree which obviously the dog can not be around. We fenced it off, but still as birds land on the branches and needles drop, I did not want him in that general area until we had it cut down and cleared away.

    When my puppy was back in the area or heading near it, I would call him to me and give him a treat. I realised after a few days that he knew he was not allowed over there, and he would trot off, constantly looking back to me. He would stop halfway there, look over his shoulder and slyly move closer to it. Definitely saying "I'm going over there now, where is my treat to stop me?!" He totally just wanted treats and knew that the way to get them was to go where he shouldn't and wait to be called. After a few weeks he would trot over towards it, stop on his own, sit, and then bound towards me as if I had called him to come, even though I hadn't, and then arrive at my feet waiting for his treat!! Little bugger!!! I just continued to treat him all the time anyway, because in my mind, he had showed me that he was learning, he knew what was expected of him, and I REALLY did not want him around the tree! It didn't take long and he stopped doing it (well, we cut down the tree so suddenly he was allowed back there....!)

    Then it turned to a hole he was digging in the garden. Knew he was not allowed to dig there, so he would saunter over and cast a glance over his shoulder, waiting to be called away from it. If you didn't call him away he would watch me the entire time, going soooo slowly towards the hole. Get to the hole, put his paw on it, look at me, inch closer to it, slooooowly....the entire time saying "I know I'm going to get my treat soon......" They are smart little things aren't they?! He outgrew that one as well - although come to think of it, he outgrew it because we put up our swimming pool and the pool is on top of the hole. Hmm.

    Anyway, the current obsession is with eating our ivy wall. He does the same thing, but we only treat him half of the time now (he is 4 months, maybe 4.5 months now?!). So when he goes over he does not know if he is getting a treat or not. I just call him away and sometimes his treat is an actual treat, sometimes it's a "good boy", or sometimes it's a toss of a ball or something. He still goes over and looks for his teat, but I slowly phase them out.

    I think if you call him away from the doorstop, and then instruct him to do something - sit, lie down, whatever - then the treat becomes not for the doorstop, but for the action. He will probably still associate "doorstop, get called away, must sit, get treat" and constantly go to the doorstop, but I think in time he will just find another random object to annoy you with and leave the doorstop alone :)
     
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  4. Shaz82

    Shaz82 Registered Users

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    We have the springy doorstops that bounce and twang and Maisy went wild for them but the plastic ends come off and the metal underneath is quite sharp, plus the constant twanging is really annoying. I put a big rock in front of it to stop her getting it, then I sprayed the rock with bitter apple spray after she decided to try and chew it :eek:. She eventually lost interest and grew out of it. Distraction with another toy also worked.

    I often wonder about the rewarding business, eg. to stop jumping at the table when we were eating dinner, we got her to sit and then she was rewarded with a treat, so really we are feeding her from the table at the same time as teaching her not to have food from the table. It worked though. Hopefully Maslow will associate the act of leaving enforced with the word leave with the reward and not the previous action. But what do I know, I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions from others soon.
     
  5. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    My tactic was to video it and enjoy it because it probably won't last, and for us it didn't. :)
     
  6. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    That’s exactly the door stop I’m talking about!!! It’s a spring that’s attached to the wall to stop the door being banged into it!
     
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  7. QuinnM15

    QuinnM15 Registered Users

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    We just took all of them off from every door and left them off for a good year (mostly because I forgot about it). We used rubber door stops for awhile instead, which turned out to be another puppy hit and after several were destroyed, just left it. Eventually she just grew out of it. I kinda miss when she would have such a fun time with simple things around the house!
     
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  8. Shaz82

    Shaz82 Registered Users

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    I do miss that twangy boing, as they grow out of these habits it makes you wonder if they still have as much fun as being a pup - everything is so fascinating to them then, it is hard work for us though and although I miss the manic pup, I love the calmer friend I have now. I wish I had filmed the doorstop attacks, I would film it now while you have the chance then you can laugh about it afterwards (in about a year!!)
     
  9. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    As luck would have it, so I don't have to write out one of my infamous oh-too-long-can't-you-just-be-concise-for-once-in-your-life essays, a blog post popped up in my inbox about this very topic.

    http://www.drjensdogblog.com/accidental-behavior-chains-are-you-training-what-you-think-you-are/

    Note the last full paragraph. Sound familiar?

    "Don’t wait for your dog to make a mistake, then try to fix it after the fact. Instead, be proactive! Arrange the environment to set him up for success. Reward right away for the behavior you want, before things have a chance to go south. And if the same problem pops up more than once or twice, change something in your training plan so that it doesn’t happen again."

    In this situation, I would set up the environment so he can't get to the doorstop when you're not concentrating on it and then have structured "default leave it" training sessions, so you are rewarding him for not attacking it. If you can be bothered. I mean, he'll probably grow out of it anyway :D
    But that's the general idea. If you feel a behaviour chain is being created of unwanted behaviour > cue > reward, then you need to be proactive to train in a way that the bad behaviour doesn't happen.
     
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  10. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    Show off :p
     
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