Snowie is finally on epilepsy meds (Potassium Bromide). He had a seizure on Sat morning and another on Sunday morning. As I write this I feel the heaviness and sorrow of our poor boy having this disease and, for me, finally admitting that he has epilepsy (to be honest, I'm still in denial thinking that the seizures must be caused by external factors that could be avoided). He'd had six seizures over two years which were not frequent enough to medicate and they were spaced apart enough as well. But two in two days... Took him immediately to the vet (thankfully her clinic is open for a half hour for emergencies on a Sunday morning) and she said immediately he must go on epilepsy meds. He'd been off in other ways (incredibly itchy, irises were orangey not the usual fawn brown, not his usual wild self on walks, hectic dreaming, very disturbed sleep and waking me up for most of the week to take him outside during the night) so we wanted a second opinion and two days later saw a specialist physician vet. Same diagnosis, just 10 times the price!! (Thankfully we have medical insurance for Snowie.) By this time Snowie was also vomiting and had liquid projectile diarrhea. But the specialist vet saw three separate issues: epilepsy, gastro, and allergies. For epilepsy: 4 ml Bromide 1x day (toxic taste but if I mix it with mashed carrots and butter he laps it up) For gastro: Antibiotics - 1.5 tablets 2x day (bitter as anything but he takes them no problem encased in butter) For allergies: Limit his food to just duck for a month (he eats raw food) and take it from there -- will start duck only from next week when his food is next delivered, vet said with allergic dogs they take them off chicken first which is the bulk of Snowie's food Regarding the epilepsy meds, this is where I would love advice (of course advice on anything else -- and words of comfort -- will be highly appreciated). Snowie has never liked having something syringed into his mouth, and when I've done this -- after having to hold him in a vice grip which I don't like doing, half the contents come out his mouth. I can't take this risk with the meds although the vet said that Bromide is the easiest of epilepsy meds, you don't have to worry about giving it exactly on the dot every day and if you give a mill more or less also not such an issue. But I do need to make sure he ingests it. The vet suggested soaking it into bread although with Snowie's allergies I prefer to keep him off grains. And anyway we seldom have bread in our house. The mashed carrots and butter works a charm, but these meds will be ongoing for at least two years (the vet said that dogs can grow out of epilepsy, and if he doesn't have another seizure he can come off them) so the thought of mashing up carrots every evening is not appealing. As I write this I'm am thinking that I could make up a batch of carrot mash that will last a few days, so that might be the answer. But if anyone has ideas to make administering the liquid meds as easy as can be, please do let me know. Thank you!
Re: Advice administering liquid medication Sorry to hear Snowie's diagnosis of epilepsy, it must be very hard to deal with particularly with the other health problems. Hopefully though with the diagnosis and medication he will soon improve. I can't really suggest any other ways of getting the medication into Snowie apart from adding it to some mashed foods that he likes. You could try with some banana, or perhaps apple for something different. Could you try some type of bread or kibble or perhaps rice that wouldn't upset his allergies. Is it at all possible to have the medication in tablet form, I've found it very easy to give tablets to Juno. Hope things improve soon for you and Snowie, and hugs and licks from both of us to both of you
Re: Advice administering liquid medication Mashing up banana sounds easier (as you are cooking the carrots first, I would assume, for mashed carrots) on a daily basis, so I second that suggestion. You could also do a weekly batch of the mushed carrots if they would keep that long - cook and mash a big batch every Sunday so then you only have to deal with it once a week? You could also try mixing it with other substances to see if that covers the taste enough. Sardine juice, tuna juice, peanut butter, low fat mayo? Also, I am sorry to hear about Snowie being diagnosed. Hopefully he continues to have very few seizures.
Re: Advice administering liquid medication Thanks Rosemary and Maisiesmomma, so appreciate your both responding. You know, I didn't even think about asking about a tablet instead of the liquid. I was in a such a state that after the consultation I had to have all the medication and doses explained to me in detail by the vet nurse, I didn't remember a word that the vet told me! Unfortunately my husband is away for work because I needed him there (I should've taken notes!). I will ask my vet when we've finished this bottle if there is rather a tablet form of the medication. Snowie is also easy to give tablets to. In fact, as soon as he hears a bottle of tablets he immediately comes looking -- because he knows they come with butter. I give him several tablets (various supplements) so he is used to taking them. Thank you both for your suggestions of mashable stuff. Yes, banana is a great idea -- because of course it means cooking the carrot first, although it's the mashing of the carrot that is time-consuming, it doesn't mash like potatoes. Actually I used a potato tonight and that was easy. My husband has just walked in after being away for four days and Snowie is so happy! He has been so cheerful since taking the meds, in the mornings so loving and affectionate and happy, although it might well be that he had an infection that the antibiotic is dealing with that was making him feel off and now he's getting a better nights sleep. Or the epilepsy meds have quieted his brain (although he hasn't had the drowsiness I was told to expect). I haven't seen him so chirpy in a long time, so things are looking up.
Re: Advice administering liquid medication So very sorry to hear of all this trouble. But hopefully, now there is a proper diagnosis, the right meds will help. Charlie was on liquid meds for quite a while. I poured it over a bit of sardine, mashed it up, and stirred that mash into his food. He never noticed, although complained when the sardines stopped when the meds were finished...
Re: Advice administering liquid medication So pleased that Snowie is feeling better and that you are also feeling more positive. I know what you mean about not taking in everything the vet said, I think a lot of us have been there 8). I know when Juno was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia I sent four emails to the orthopaedic specialist because I couldn't remember all that he said. ;D Some good suggestions for things to mash to mix with the medication, sounds as if Snowie is going to be very happy to take his medicine. Let us know how he gets on.
Re: Advice administering liquid medication Really glad he's feeling chirpier If he can tolerate dairy food what about cream cheese? Or yoghurt? Something you can spoon out of a jar would be easier than something you have to mash.
Re: Advice administering liquid medication I've just done the worst thing: started reading up on anti-epilepsy meds on the internet. I've been looking at what looks like a good website (canine-epilepsy.com) but boy am I scared now! The frightening part is that, once on the drug, weaning off of it needs to be very strictly monitored otherwise the dog can go into a major, dangerous seizure. The benefit of the drug Snowie is on (Potassium Bromide) is that it has a long half life, which is why you can miss a dose or two. But it was banned for human use in the US in 1975 because of its toxicity (the other side of the long half life I suppose). It helps headaches, which might explain why Snowie has been so happy. Poor boy, if he had a headache before. Thanks again for more advice. Regarding dairy, dairy is not advised for epileptic dogs -- I can't remember exactly why but most likely the proteins lower the seizure threshold. Butter is the only dairy Snowie gets cos it is so useful for administering tablets, and when I use cream I do let him lick the container! I used to use a lot of cheese for training treats, but not since I read about its effect on seizure threshold. (There was a time when you could not open the cheese drawer in the fridge without Snowie eyeing you -- ooh the guilt for eating cheese without giving him any! We became quite adept at opening the cheese drawer very quietly! But it also became easier not to eat cheese at all!) [quote author=MaccieD link=topic=10848.msg161681#msg161681 date=1431028299] I know when Juno was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia I sent four emails to the orthopaedic specialist because I couldn't remember all that he said. [/quote] Exactly me! I am so overwhelmed and upset in the moment that I forget everything. Even now I ask myself: why didn't I question the choice of medication? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10848.msg161677#msg161677 date=1431027940] Charlie ... complained when the sardines stopped when the meds were finished... [/quote] ;D
Re: Advice administering liquid medication So sorry to hear this a out Snowie but glad he is on treatment now. I have to admit I Google it too as I thought it was a very old treatment but it does look like it iscallinghoice for canine epilepsy and although it takes a few months to be really effective it looked pretty safe. All epileptic drugs should be slowly increased and slowly stopped. That is completely normal. Only downside I could see is maybe some sedative effect Looks like it is available in capsules so worth asking your vet. i bet you will have loads of questions occu4ing over the next few days, your OH too, so might be worth calling your vet if you have concerns just to have an opportunity to chat. I do hope this is going to be a solution for poor Snowie.
Re: Advice administering liquid medication It may be that there is some downside to the medication for some dogs but it also sounds like the drugs have the potential to greatly improve Snowie's quality of life. If it's important to wean the dog off it slowly then he will be weaned off it slowly so there is no risk from that, if he ever needs to stop or reduce the dose. Talk with your vet, not Google
Re: Advice administering liquid medication Tablets would be so great if you could do that instead. I am sure in the moment it was very hard to think of anything beyond how upset you felt about Snowie and the big impact this diagnosis has on you both. I am sure if you give your vet a call they could answer your questions as well (Google is a very scary place when looking up medication/illness info… for us humans, you will always find a site telling you that awkward twinge in your neck is WITHOUT A DOUBT cancer and for dogs, that caterpillar they ate will KILL THEM… so always best to talk to a real vet about it!). So funny Snowie goes right away when he hears tablets coming out. Maisie is the same, although she is absolutely ridiculous and does not even require butter. When she was on antibiotics, I asked her to do a sit, then gave her one of her pills, plain. Just the pill. She swallowed it down very happily, then we repeated. You would think she would figure out they weren't tasty, but no, she was like, thanks! Where's my next one!
Re: Advice administering liquid medication So sorry to read about Snowie's health problems ,but it sounds like you have been so diligent in getting him checked over thoroughly and now you have the diagnoses the medication will help,him live a comfortable life with you. If you have to use a liquid med,I reckon Julie's suggestion would work great.The only thing I could think of was dipping the syringe into some cream cheese and then dropping it in slowly as he licks the cream cheese,kind of like the tummy probiotic syringes ,Dexter licks as the meds go in x
Re: Advice administering liquid medication [quote author=Oberon link=topic=10848.msg161725#msg161725 date=1431036019] Talk with your vet, not Google [/quote] Absolutely!!
Re: Advice administering liquid medication A small hand blender like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Braun-MQ100...8&qid=1431073841&sr=8-2&keywords=Hand+blender will make mashing carrot etc easier. I'm glad snowie is feeling brighter and more himself.
Re: Advice administering liquid medication [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=10848.msg161750#msg161750 date=1431063257] [quote author=Oberon link=topic=10848.msg161725#msg161725 date=1431036019] Talk with your vet, not Google [/quote] Absolutely!! [/quote] Never ever google your symptoms, way too scary. If you can't remember something or you think of something else, speak to your vet. I've had regular conversations with my vet and specialist because either I couldn't remember what was said or hadn't thought to ask a question.
Thank you everyone for your wonderful replies -- sound advice (particular around Google!! ooh I laughed at the "WITHOUT A DOUBT" diagnoses!!) and your words of comfort, so very much appreciated. I am feeling SO much better a week later and also having chatted to the specialist vet (what a lovely gentle man!). I called him immediately it was suggested I call (from this post) but as it would happen he didn't work Friday! The vet nurse was extremely helpful regarding doses because I was sure I was overdosing Snowie. He is prescribed 4ml, but when I syringed 4ml from the syringe into a teaspoon, the teaspoon overflowed (the teaspoon is 5ml). I must've been out of my mind when I was doing it, because when the vet nurse talked me through it over the phone, the syringe measured exactly 4ml into the teaspoon. The after effects of being told your dog is epileptic! I emailed my questions to the vet and he called me on Monday to discuss my questions. And how thorough he was, I was very touched by his kindness and concern. He said that Snowie's seizures weren't in dire need of being treated (unlike, say, if he'd been having a seizure every day or cluster seizures in the day). If that had been the case, he'd have prescribed Phenobarbitone immediately because it has an immediate effect. Potassium Bromide is slower to act but easier in the long run because of the half life -- you can miss a dose and not worry, and it doesn't need to be given on the dot every day unlike Phenobarb, which, if missed by 2 hours, can lead to a serious seizure. The side effects of Potassium Bromide are drowsiness and hind quarter weakness, and of course pancreatitis. The first two Snowie does not seem to be affected by, and the last one affects overweight females more, and Snowie is a regular weight male, so I am hoping he won't be affected. He will have bloods taken in 3 months to test blood levels and to determine ongoing dosage. Regarding taking it, he doesn't seem to mind the vile taste. I made up a batch of steamed butternut (it mashes so easily!) and it is now easier to give the meds to him every evening. The downside is that his poo is a little sticky and soft, which I'm not used to -- on raw food he has nice hard small poos. But it is of no concern given the benefits of his eating it up with the meds. I do have the blender recommended, and thank you for reminding me that I do have it (again, after effects of the epilepsy diagnosis, I could not think straight!) -- I will use it for those veggies that don't mash so nicely (like carrots). The vet said that Bromide is not available in tablets or capsules (and I've read that the doses for each patient are individual (based on weight) making capsules expensive to make up just for your dog's dose). All in all everything looks good. I can't believe how much happier he is. I used to attribute his more "settled" self to being older now (3.5 years old). But I wonder if it was to do with either the infection or that his brain needed the epilepsy meds (the vet reckons the latter when I told him how cheerful and puppy-like Snowie has become). We have started on duck only this week and I am hoping against hope that his allergies will improve (he is scratching less, which might also be a benefit of the antibiotic and he is definitely a lot cooler -- I am sure he had a fever when he had his seizures cos he was very hot to the touch then). He is also responding so much better to my husband -- in the past he only had eyes for me, sometimes could not be bothered to get up to say hallo to my husband. Now, unsolicited, he is greeting my husband and wagging his tail when he sees him and taking him his ball. I just think he must've been feeling so very sick, poor boy. What a stoic. And how awful I feel that it has taken us so long to treat him (although believe you me we have visited the vet rather often!!).
So please to see you feeling so positive. It sounds as if you have a brilliant vet to care for Snowie, and you How fantastic that Snowie is now greeting your husband and asking him to play he must be feeling so much better, Fingers crossed that he keeps improving
I'm really glad snowie is showing such great improvement and you've got the advice you needed from your vet. Fingers crossed all goes well now.
Thanks MaccieD and Jen -- things are looking great. Of course we still worry because the Potassium Bromide takes at least a month to reach therapeutic levels so we watch for any behaviour that's out of the ordinary. Last night Snowie weed in his sleep (he woke up immediately after and gave a cursory clean-up lick), although this we're told happens in intact males (he is intact they might dream of who knows what which causes the bulbous urethral gland to go very hard -- those two "balls" on either side of the penis -- and this causes incontinence in the moment. It doesn't happen often but of course I was very worried when it happened last night given everything that has happened these past two weeks. But nothing untoward happened and he is absolutely fine today. Of course, with all the stress and sleep deprivation of the last few weeks, I am now sick! Last night for his meds I blended the carrots with the hand blender -- yum! Think I'm going to be adding this dish to my human food repertoire!!
Now that I can upload photos so easily with this new forum, thought I'd show you what he looks like. This is a professional photo of him taken a year and half ago. He has aged a little since then. When I download the latest photos from my phone, I'll add a more recent one, although my photos aren't nearly as well taken!
