Hey fellow forum addicts, we got a "little" problem with our boy Odin(22 month). For the last half a year or so his behaviour towards other intact male dogs has changed dramatically. While he was always friendly to every dog we met before he got more and more agressive towards studs in the last 4-6 month. We can hardly meet any male dog on our walk without getting into a fight tbh. Hes still absolutally wonderful with bitches and castrates though. So my main questions would be: Do you have any idea what might have caused this change in his behaviour? Since we've got him at the age of 8 weeks we went to puppy classes, gundog classes etc where he met other dogs on a weekly basis. Apard from his aversion towards other males hes a fantastic dog. He adores children and basically everyone he meets : : plays nicely with bitches and shows no aggression in any other situation. His recall is good and we are making fantasic process with our dummy work. Do you think it could be a hormon induced reaction? Is he still "growing up" and got some testosterone overflow going on? Our gundog trainer said that she thinks its macho behaviour and we could try a 6 month chemical castration and see if his agression originates in something hormonal or not. Somehow i don't really like that idea though because i think i read that it takes Labs up to 2 years and more to reach adulthood and i don't like the thought of messing with his hormones until he is not fully matured. I also noticed that if I distract Odin when we meet other males and he is not in attack mode he often gets attacked by the other dog! Another big big problem is, that we can hardly do any training to improve his reaction during our daly walks because most of the dogs in our neighborhood dont listen to their owners AT ALL! So its very hard to try to distract him and heel him past the "enemie : :" while the other dog is jumping around us trying to get to Odin with his owner shouting and trying to get a hold of him. Ahh and i forgot to mention that his behaviour got worse after he was biten by a big black lab mix out of nowhere. So anyone got any thoughts, tips or tricks how we can improve his behaviour again. Also has anyone got any experiences with chemical castration and wants to share his thoughts on it?
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! Hi there, I have recently had my 9 year old Mal castrated so I have read up a lot about it recently. If this behaviour is about your dogs reaction to intact males I read some where about even if the intact male is behaving in a non threatening manner males may find him intimidating and therefore an incident can occur. This certainly made sense to me as I had the most soft pudding of an intact male Newfoundland and he walked beautifully on the lead but other dogs always came up and had a "go" at him when he was minding his own business. My vet of many years has always been clear that castration will not help aggression it only helps over sexualised behaviour. Now my Mal has just been done for health reasons and his attention to my Lab the only thing that has changed as he has stopped humping her. The rest of his personality is the same. I did read a lot about chemical castration before we had Jasper done. I think it gets mixed reviews so to me seemed a bit of a gamble The good thing though is its not permanent. I am not sure that helps and am sure there will be a more expert opinion coming along but this was my experience. Emma
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! While it's not a sexual behaviour as such it does seem to be very determined by the sexual status of the target dog. Entire dogs smell different and just seem to get some dogs going... Entire male dogs (ie still with balls attached) do often seem to set other dogs off - usually castrated ones. That is, castrated males can get very barky towards entire males. For that reason I'm not sure that castrating Odin would definitely resolve the issue - he may still want to 'have a go' at entire males, even if he is castrated. Still, it might be worth discussing the chemical castration option with your vet, as suggested by your trainer. It might make other entire males calmer around him, too, which may help. At 22 months it won't have any impact on his development, so I wouldn't worry about that. I think the risk (and stress for you) associated with his behaviour is the biggest consideration here. A training solution is always a good plan, regardless of whether Odin gets the snip. I know it's very hard if others do not control their dogs... Normally you'd be trying to train up a 'look at me' type of behaviour whenever other dogs appear. Even though other dogs are a major complication I think that working on a good 'look at me' response is important.
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! [quote author=Oberon link=topic=8492.msg120050#msg120050 date=1414410058] A training solution is always a good plan, regardless of whether Odin gets the snip. I know it's very hard if others do not control their dogs... Normally you'd be trying to train up a 'look at me' type of behaviour whenever other dogs appear. Even though other dogs are a major complication I think that working on a good 'look at me' response is important. [/quote] Thanks for your answers! We've been working very hard on that "look at me" behaviour since the problem first surfaced. The 2 problems i got with that solution are that no 1 I don't think that you can(at least i cant i believe ;D) train that comand to a level where Odin will ignore an off leash dog that comes at him growling and barking so there will always be fights no mather how good i train the "look at me" and second that it doesn't really solve the aggression problem we have but distracts him which means if there is no distraction (i don't see the dog coming, i'm to far away for the "look at me" command....) there will most likely be a fight. So what i'm searching for basically is a methode to make Odin understand that not every entire male is a threat to him. I got the feeling that he, since he's been biten by that other lab mix, got a "i hit you before you hit me" attitude. And him getting attacked by other dogs doesn't make it easier to rebuilt his trust in other male dogs.
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! Have you thought about contacting a behaviourist about this. I think it will be very difficult to convince Odin that not every male is a threat because to him they are. :-\ You could try the calming signals that you can to some extent influence. 'Look at me ' I can totally appreciate how difficult this would be with the other dog loose. It works though as it should calm Odin and the approaching dog. Try some really tasty, stinky treats. Turning Odin away from the oncoming dog in a curve and slowly should give the same signal as 'look at me' basically a dog looking directly at another dog is asking for trouble so you need to break that stare. It won't be easy Odin will want to stand his ground. Physically put yourself between Odin and the other dog. In a group of dogs if two start having a go at each othe a third will literally break them up by separating them physically using its body. I see this happen when all the dogs in our family get together. There are lots of calming signals dogs give off but I think those are the only ones you could make use of. Others are things like lip licking, yawning things only the dog can do. : I don't know if this will help but it might be somewhere to start good luck.
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! Thank you for your thoughts on our problem Jen. I'm glad for every input i can get since i'd really prefer to solve this problem through training rather than any hormon treatment or stuff like that. It's just a little frustrating because apart from his macho problem hes the best dog i can imagine and i love him to bits! And i dont really know where we went wrong tbh because he wasn't always like that.
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! I would encourage you to continue his gun dog training, as this really reinforces the idea that other dogs (including uncastrated male dogs) are to be ignored while you are working. It really helps with concentration, and focus. I feel your pain though - I had two entire male dogs for many many years, and they were definitely more work than the girl dog I have now. But I am not a big fan of castration, other than for health reasons.
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! [quote author=Karen link=topic=8492.msg120078#msg120078 date=1414425028] I would encourage you to continue his gun dog training, as this really reinforces the idea that other dogs (including uncastrated male dogs) are to be ignored while you are working. It really helps with concentration, and focus. [/quote] Hey karen thank you for your reply! We are attending gundog classes on a weekly basis and while working Odin is ignoring all dogs and is very focused and we had great process this summer we only got those problems during free running time and on our daily walks. I'm no big castration fan either tbh and would only think of it as the last possible option thats why i'm sharing this with you guys and hope for tips from more experiensed dog owners than i am. It's just a little heartbreaking to see your couchsnuggling handlicking facelicking puppy turn into a snarling furball of terror when meeting entire males
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! I know how you feel Christopher. :-\. My dogs are soft, friendly, affectionate everything a lab should be at home and with people they know but a stranger tries to go near and they turn into beasts. :-\ We have made a lot of progress though so don't worry there is hope. The calming signals I've suggested have helped a lot but it takes time, repetition and patience. If you arm yourself with tasty, stinky treats you could try throwing them to the approaching dog. It might stop it and give you chance to move Odin away. Stranger things have happened. :. For Odin to learn other dogs aren't a threat you need to keep him below threshold. If you know anybody with intact male dogs who could help you you could start exposing him to them in controlled situations like just walking along on lead. If you can find someone to help BAT setup exercises might help you can find them on www.empoweredanimals.com
Re: Agressive behaviour against other male dogs! Help needed!! [quote author=Jen link=topic=8492.msg120158#msg120158 date=1414440295] For Odin to learn other dogs aren't a threat you need to keep him below threshold. If you know anybody with intact male dogs who could help you you could start exposing him to them in controlled situations like just walking along on lead. If you can find someone to help BAT setup exercises might help you can find them on www.empoweredanimals.com [/quote] Very interesting link thank you Jen! And I'm planning to ask other dog owners we meet on our walks if its ok for them if we do a little on lead walking together.
