Amount of food in diet and soft poo's :(

Hello,

Firstly, sorry for all the silly questions we have been asking.

We are so confused with the amount of food we are meant to be feeding Ozzie, how often we are meant to be feeding him & what we are meant to be doing as he is having soft poo's a lot recently.

We picked him up on 10th June (8 and a half weeks old at 6.2kg) he was being fed on Royal Canin Maxi Junior 3 times a day on 4/8's of a cup (approx 60g) and the breeder told us to up it by 1/8 each week, which we did on the 1st week, to breakfast and lunch being 5/8's and dinner still being 4/8's. However we have since read the bag of the food and it suggests for a 30kg adult size dog (minimum) at 2months (he is now 10weeks & 4 days), we should feed him 239g over 3 meals, which is roughly 80g each meal and we read Pippa's book which suggest having 4 meals a day (7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm) so we decided to spilt this into the following:

Breakfast 7am - 81g (5/8's)
Lunch 11am - 81g (5/8's)
Dinner 7pm - 60g (4/8's)
Total 222g

This left us with 17g of food to use in the kong and as treats/rewards for training - we would give him a Kong at 3pm to have while we pop out for an hour, which he is great at, he doesn't stress or cry or bark, just happily plays with his kong and if he finishes it before we get back, he just curls up with his soft toy and goes to sleep.

However since upping Ozzie's daily food, he has been having soft poo's, we have read lots of different articles/posts/websites and can't seem to crack this, and we are worried we are over feeding him and that is the cause of soft poo's or that he just doesn't agree with the food we are feeding him (which would be strange as the breeder was feeding him the same food, and he seemed to have been fine up until we increased his food allowance) and was just seeing if anyone has had similar experience's or can offer any advice on if we are doing the right thing with his food, we are worried about getting into the vicious circle of weight loss/gain, if he is not eating properly.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

When I got Harley I fed her 4 times a day until she was about 12 weeks old. This really helped with her poo. Also, she was on Royal Canin and unfortunately her tummy didn't agree with it, it took us several months to work out it was the food!(long story!). I never fed the full amount of what was recommended, she had roughly 80-85% of the daily amount - I find most food manufacturers will over estimate the amount you need to feed.
Could you go back to 4 times a day? I would recommend trying this for a few weeks.
Is your pup big? My vet recommended I go by the recommended amount for a 25kg dog max.
Hope this helps a bit

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Hi,

He's not a big puppy, well we don't think so, when we called by the vets on 18th he was 6.8kg which he was 9 and a half weeks.

We are going to try the 4 meals a day on about 85% of the recommended allowance and see how we go with that, fingers crossed this will start to help him, if not perhaps we can investigate the new food option.

Thank you, Glad we aren't the only ones who have had this problem, was really worried we had done something wrong with him

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

See how she goes, I wouldn't assume that the food agrees with her just because she has always had it. My boy was on Royal Canin for a while, we had problems and swapped to another type of Royal Canin and was sorted.

Soft poo (or any other oddity in poo) is not normal just because you feed kibble. It means something is not quite right. Either volume or type of food.

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Yes I would say it's either overfeeding or that the food isn't agreeing with him. As Julie said just because he's always been fed that food doesn't mean it's the best food for him.

The general rule of thumb that a lot of us on here seem to go by is to feed two thirds of the indicated amount on the packaging. I certainly wouldn't feed the amount that it recommends - for a start you don't really have an idea if what his adult weight will be. Sure you can look at the parents for guidance but that doesn't necessarily mean your pup will be anything like that size when mature (Penny's parents were around the 25kg mark and she is now fully grown at 18.5).
I never fed Penny four meals a day, she got three and she did fine. At the breeders they were being fed ad hoc (bowl of food left down all the time) and I wanted her on structured meal times - so many reasons why you shouldn't feed like that.

Royal Canin is a good food, but it doesn't suit everyone. If cutting the meal sizes back down doesn't solve the problem I would be considering changing food. Just make sure you do this gradually over at least 7-10 days so you pup has time to adjust to a new food.

You also need to take into consideration the amount of treats you are giving him, you say you have factored in the allowance he gets in his Kongs but do you give him anything else like chews or other sorts of treats? As these all count too. Also the types of treats you are using - for example a lot of the 'pedigree' brand of treats are very rich, particularly markies and schmackos. Not only can they cause runny tummies but can also make your pup a bit hyper. Someone in my puppy class was using them and their puppy was mad. The trainer advised them to try cutting them out and at the class the following week they said they had stopped and the pup was a total angel. The change in behaviour was obvious.

Edited to add:
Just as an example of how off the feeding guides on the packaging can be: i feed Arden grange adult. My dog weighs 18.5kg so according to their chart should be feed between 230-280g of food per day (split into two meals). What I actually feed her is 160g per day (split into two meals) and much more than that will see her pile on the weight like mad.

Also I just noticed you say you feed royal canon maxi, which is designed for large breed dogs. Labradors aren't technically classed as a large breed so unless you have one who's going to reach 35kg or more at adult weight you would be fine to feed regular puppy food.

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Hi Lauren, Julie,

Thanks for your replies, we are starting to see why everyone says just because don't make it so....

We are really struggling with the diet process here, like you say Lauren Labs are considered medium breeds, and we also finding it referred to as Large by other companies. So how on earth are you meant to make the correct decision if all the food manufactures refer to them differently....I was under impression that the pedigrees had standards that were followed.

After reading your response we have gone onto the Royal Canin product select site (http://tinyurl.com/ouwkabj) entered our details and set the age at 3 months, and they recommend we use the Labrador Retriever Junior (http://tinyurl.com/opu2ylb) food, now this is where it gets tricky they also state in product description under size that its a maxi breed at 26-44 kg which then brings the food that breeder recommends (Royal Canin puppy maxi) back into play.

To top all of this off the Lab Retriever Junior engineered food shape is different haha.

Completely lost at all of this now, going to call it a night and see how the diet reduction goes like you guys say and see if that improves. How long would it normally take for any changes to be noticeable (I appreciate all pups are different but as a rule of thumb would give us something to aim for).

Again sorry for complaining here, but how can it be THIS complicated!

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

I fed Royal Canin junior - it is not the same as puppy maxi and the upper weight range is lower. I would stick to the Royal Canin junior rather than the maxi if poss.

As a guide, I never fed more than 60% of the guideline on the packet. But my boy is a "good doer".

If over feeding is the problem, and you cut back, you should see an improvement in 1 or 2 days.

I switched to Royal Canin sensitive after having a few problems, and the improvement was instant (within a day) and dramatic. But the Royal Canin sensitive is the one food you can switch to instantly, and not do the gradual change over. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think you should switch a young puppy to this food, I just say that's what we did for an instant improvement (under vet supervision).

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Hi Nick and Katie,I'm just chipping in here to sympathise....I've had loads of fiddling about to get Dexters diet right when he was younger.I agree with everything that the other members have said ....I'd break it down into ...trying 4 meals a day again of your current allowance as the first step before then looking at reducing food and then finally changing the food over.
Our path was eukanuba puppy ( breeder) to RC maxi puppy to. RC Gastro Intestinal puppy,to RC gastro intestinal adult....I'd like to change him to Fish4dogs but having gone through upset tummies for 3 months with recurring bouts for the first 16 months if anything extra ( exception steamed/roast chicken) was consumed I'm too apprehensive ....Dexter is doing well on the food he's on ,we've just concluded with the vet he has a sensitive tum ,so I'm sticking with it until there is a need to change.i just wanted to say I feel your pain,you worry like mad they are getting enough,your heart sinks when you see the runny,soft poo so don't feel like you are complaining at all.Getting feeding right is fundamental to their health and it can be so confusing Hope you see an improvement soon x
Dexter is currently celebrating because he has just had the merest smidgen of peanut butter introduced to being smeered around the inside of an empty kong ..... ;D ;D ;D he thinks it's Christmas!!!!i do too because it hasn't given him the trots! ;D
Best wishes
Angela

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

I know how much of a minefield diets can be. I'm lucky in that I only switched Penny's food due to personal preference. She's never had a sensitive stomach (except when she eats cow poo lol).

If it were me, my first step would be reducing the overall amount fed. As Julie said this should be noticeable after a couple of days if it's going to make a difference. Then I would look at diet only if that didn't seem to make a difference.

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

[quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=6733.msg91105#msg91105 date=1403646708]
......you say you have factored in the allowance he gets in his Kongs but do you give him anything else like chews or other sorts of treats?
[/quote]

Just read back through the post realised that in my vent I didn't answer Lauren's question, we try to either give him a kong stuffed with his food out of a lunch allowance, or we give him a rice bone (but we have only gave him that once) with a bit of guess work with how much food to remove out of his meals to compensate? Not sure if Rice bones add anything to their diet, we think it must do?

Angela, thanks for the post really nice to hear we are not going mad haha. We hope your boy keeps up the strong gut, and thanks for the cow poo its something we are yet to look forward to after his 2nd injections are done, we can't wait to take him out he looks like a prisoner in his cage and pen play area haha.

Taking all the advice onboard we have now gone to a reduced diet from the packet recommendations, which if we follow a 30kg adult the table takes us to 239g and we are going to first try at 85% (because at anything lower takes us below or same intake that he was on when he was 8-9 weeks old and he is growing quick now & starting to show off ribs a little, so some worry here).

At 85% we got his diet as follows for the next couple of days:
Breakfast 7am = 51g
Lunch 11am = 51g split into treats and kong (our puppy kong fits 9g)
Afternoon Tea 3pm = 51g again some treats and feed out of bowl
Dinner 7pm = 51g

(we also cut his kibble in half so we can make the training last longer to keep him occupied from chewing the place apart since we are not giving the rice bone)

Our kitchen was like a drug lab this morning with scales and produce being weighed all over the place haha. We are going to hold off the rice bones for a moment until we stabilise!

We'll keep updating this thread for anyone else who might end up in this position

Again thanks for the support guys, its really nice to know we are not crazy lol.

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Keep going, you will get there.
I had nearly 7 months of problems with Harley and her tummy issues, we found out after reducing food, switching to RC gastro for sensitive tummies, chicken and rice for several weeks, lots of blood instead of stools (sorry if anyone is eating breakfast) that Harley is wheat intollerant and has a very sensitive tummy. I found a non-wheat food (Bob and Lush) and it all changed, we now have a pup who has normal stools, has put on weight and is thriving (except for being in season, but that's another story!).

I struggled for months and everyone on here really helped me and my family get through it all. Please don't feel you can't ask a question, I've asked several silly ones, but always get help or good advice

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Should any one be looking at if this worked or not in the future if they are in the same boat, here is our short update:

Today is day 3 of the diet reduction and fingers crossed I think the issues are gone! We are still using the same feed as he was on at the breeders which is RC Maxi junior.
Ozzie also seems to be much happier as well, so we are able to enjoy him even more so. Will risk a small increase on Sunday as he is 11 weeks today and starting to look gangly at 7.5Kg

We have also purchased an anti gulping bowl from a local pet shop yesterday. It actually works great and he is also not as bloated after feeds as it takes him a little longer to eat as its a bit more of a challenge, rather than the usual hoover approach. Pic of the bowl we got is below:


Again thanks for the support guys, appreciate all the feedback and it has helped us a ton!

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

That's brilliant you're making progress! Fingers crossed everything works out well!

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Glad you are making progress I use that bowl for Harley, it really does slow down how quickly she eats

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

So we were making progress with Ozzie, who is now 12 weeks old.

But then we increased his food by 4g each meal (totalling 16g through out the day) which works out at 92% of his recommended allowance on the food bag, as he was starting to look skinny because he is grown fast in length and height, but he is now have irregular soft poo's, but some are runny.

We are in the vets on tuesday for his 12 week injections so will mention this to the vets, but we are just seeing if anyone has any advice on what we can do? As we feel a bit like we are going round in circles, we don't want him to be skin and bones, so need to increase his food in take but then he has soft/runny poos, causing him to loose more weight.

Should we change his food? Or push forward with the increase with this food? Or is there something else we should do?

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Can you remind me how often you're feeding him now please?

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Hi Barbara,

Yes, We feed him 4 times a day:

7am - 55g
11am - 49g (we take 6g out for his kong and training treats)
3pm - 49g (we take 6g out for his kong and training treats)
7pm 49g (we take 6g out for his kong and training treats)

so he gets a total of 220g a day and Royal Canin Maxi Junior Bag it recommends 239g a day for 2month old 30kg adult dog and for a 3month it says 298g. he turned 12 weeks on Friday.

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

I struggled with Harley's poo being soft when on royal canin gastro puppy. I changed to bob and lush after over 6 months of tummy upsets (including bleeding from behind). She has gained weight and is looking really good. I'm glad I changed food because it was obviously the cause - we did find out eventually that she us wheat intollerant. Might be worth a try??

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Did you say he's 12 weeks now? I would say you would probably be ok putting him down to three meals a day and seeing if that helps.

 

Re: Amount of food in diet and soft poo's

Add a dessert spoon of natural yoghurt to each meal and lose one feed for 2 days in a row. That's the advice I got and it worked. Of course, I am no expert and it seems to me that diet can be adjusted (amount of kibble) on a daily basis, depending on how the poos are looking. Could it be teething? Sorry I haven't read all of the posts so maybe this has been suggested.
I know it's a worry so good luck.