Really frustrated this morning, and angry at myself I think. We went for our usual morning walk to the field. Penny has gotten to a point where I can happily let her off lead in the field when there are other off lead dogs in there. We mostly stick to the opposite side to them, and her recall away from other dogs has gotten very good too, so we rarely have an issue. Also I recognise all the dogs that are likely to be there at the time we walk (usually only one other person with their dog at any one time though), and I know they are all good dogs for Penny. There's Louie the big fluffy German shepherd who stays on lead because his recall is appalling be he is lovely nonetheless and so is his old man. There's a lady with an old lab and a collie, she's very responsible and seems like a nice lady. There's a lady with two impeccably trained black labs. And then there's the lady with the brown brindle crossbreed. I've only seen her a handful of times with this dog on the lead and she always stays the opposite side of the field. I've been told by Louie's owner to 'watch out' for her as her dog is 'very aggressive'. I always steer clear of her anyway because her dog looks like a staffi type and Penny hates staffies (I think they're lovely but she's had bad experiences with a couple). This morning we got into the field and the dog was off the lead, on the opposite side. I should have turned around and left then and there and I feel stupid for not doing so. I thought it would be ok as she was on the other side of the field and she wouldn't have let him off if she couldn't recall him, right? So we set off, I kept Penny on her flexi lead just in case. The dog spots us and runs towards us, then stops and watches us. That's fine, I can keep Penny focused away from that. He then runs off to the bushes and just generally mooches around. All this time, however, the woman is calling and calling and calling him. She even runs to the gate to leave and he doesn't pay her an ounce of attention. This carries on for five minutes or so and he runs up to us again. This time her gets into what I call the 'eyeballing danger zone' which is a close enough proximity for Penny to react if a dog runs up and stares at her. So I call our 'this way' command and turn to walk in the opposite direction - time to leave I think. The dog follow us, which Penny does not like at all and gives him a bark. He barks back and chaos ensues. We make it to the gate to leave and the owner has caught up with us, the whole time she's trying to recall the dog. She apologises, and explains that he's nervous because he was attacked. I say the same about Penny just as she slips her collar. Luckily I have her lead attached to her head collar so she can't go anyway but she's now backed into a corner where two fences meet. Thankfully the dog runs off for a bit and we are able to exit the field. I could kick myself. I should have walked away as soon as I saw the dog off lead. I set Penny up to fail in that situation and now she's had a huge setback it will take us weeks, if not months, to recover from. And I'm angry at the other dogs owner. Ok he's nervous and has social issues, just like Penny, but I know that I can recall her from any situation. I always recall her if I see an unknown dog or a situation I don't think I can control. Why would she let him off if she had that little control over him? When we were heading back after finishing our walk I could still hear her calling him - my house is opposite the houses that back on to the field.
Re: Another setback frustrated Oh dear, you sound stressed, I hope that today is better and you have a good walk. And I think you are being far too hard on yourself. It's going to be pretty difficult to organise your life so another dog never runs up to Penny - I would have thought that's setting yourself up to fail unless you live absolutely in the middle of nowhere (and I don't think you do). Dogs run up to other dogs all the time, and most pet owners have moderately bad recalls - it's just the way it is, and much as it would be ideal for things to be different, they aren't. You just can't beat yourself up about this, you'll drive yourself quite mad! Does Penny interact with strange dogs at all? Could you try to find some classes that would let you practice around strange dogs?
Re: Another setback frustrated Ah Lauren,bad luck but I second everything Julie says,don't be hard in yourself ....sounds like that lady saw an opportunity to give her dog a run while it was quiet and then probably wasn't vigilant enough to get the dog back as you arrived. Not a cheap option,(but worth it for me as I was losing my bottle ) but I invested in some 121's at a local training centre when Dexter was at his reactive worst,although my issues were on lead.The place I used was a boarding and daycare centre as well so I basically paid for a trainer to stand with me for an hour at a time while different dogs were paraded around for us to practice with.....it made a massive difference. I know this will have knocked you as much as Penny but don't let it....we all do things and look back afterwards and wonder ,why? Big hug x
Re: Another setback frustrated Lauren, please don't feel bad it was one of those things we judge in a split second and sometimes it happens because we are human and not robots. I always feel the same way as you when things go wrong thinking I've set training back but you won't have. Do you still work at the kennels? If you do could you maybe take Penny with you and do as Angela suggests with calm dogs being paraded infront of Penny? Just a thought as trainers are so expensive. Tomorrow is another day and a new training opportunity, please be kind to yourself xxx
Re: Another setback frustrated I forgot to add that the owner of this dog said this was the first time he had been offlead, so no recall is perhaps understandable. I'm more angry at myself than anything though - as I've mentioned I should have just walked away and then we never would have had this incident. I was just getting to the point where I was feeling confident enough to take her to the big park which is a lot more busy with other dogs, but now I'm back to feeling scared to take her there. The behaviourist I used to work with does run socialisation classes which I would love to attend, however they are on Tuesday afternoons when I work so I don't think it's going to be possible if I still worked at the kennels I could do some work with her and some of the kennel dogs on my days off (I used to bring them home sometimes and Penny had a best friend in a little white deaf staffie) but I left over a year ago so that's not an option anymore. I really feel that she just needs to have a few really good encounters with other dogs but I think I'm too scared to actually let her get close to any other dogs.
Re: Another setback frustrated Do you still have contacts or friends at the kennels you worked in Lauren, maybe you could still take Penny in for some positive experiences? I don't know if that is an option. Do you have any friends/neighbours with nice dogs that you could arrange some walks and off lead time with? Don't be scared you have done so well, don't give up now. xx
Re: Another setback frustrated I'm not really in contact with anyone there anymore, only the behaviourist because we had a 1-1 session last year. The only people I know with dogs have small dogs, and that is just asking for trouble because she is a bit of a bully. I'm thinking about emailing our behaviourist and asking if he can do us another private 1-1 session with some dogs involved so he can see her around them and give me some advice. She does well on our South West Forum group walks, but she doesn't really interact with any of the dogs, I think she just tolerates being around them because they mostly leave her alone.
Re: Another setback frustrated [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=10079.msg147354#msg147354 date=1425469475] I really feel that she just needs to have a few really good encounters with other dogs but I think I'm too scared to actually let her get close to any other dogs. [/quote] Well, you know (of course) that you are in a vicious circle there....the less exposure she gets, the worse it will be. But I can understand how difficult it must feel once you are there. What are your options? How about a small on lead dog walking group to start with? Can you make arrangements with a dog walker to meet up with a couple of friendly dogs? Even a Saturday morning church hall obedience class maybe? Lots of dogs come to training and we are all told "this is X, and he needs space". And they spend their first few sessions on the edges of the action, gradually working towards other dogs. Could you do something like that? Find a sympathetic instructor that will let you join a class but do your own thing at first?
Re: Another setback frustrated It used to be like that with our Rally Obedience class and she was getting really good. We did the beginners and intermediate classes and then didn't get invited back for advanced which makes me feel like it was because of her behaviour Our friends that live locally aren't as 'grown up' as us - we are settled down, married with pets and planning children, but some of them still live at home with parents (we are all mid-late 20's). Possibly finding another local obedience class might be an option, I might look in to that, but I get embarrassed by her behaviour and feel like I'm a bad owner because I can't control her/teach her. Wow it's all coming out now...don't think I've been this honest about how I feel for a long time.
Re: Another setback frustrated Ok, you have got to give yourself a good (but friendly) talking to there. What would you say to a good friend if she said the same? You've got to get out there, find sympathetic people, and work on it. And to hell what they think about you or your dog (if they are unkind enough to think anything bad anyway). Charlie has been a disgrace over the months, and yes, I have inwardly cringed at the novice levels we have stayed at for far too long. And I've had numerous gundog trainers and other students roll their eyes and wonder what on earth I'm doing with my over excited Chocolate show dog...but, you know, we've got a lot out of it, and I do not feel the need to justify my efforts or my dog's capabilities to anyone. And the truth is, no-one is really all that interested anyway. And mostly, in any event, they are kind. Onwards and upwards. Make a list of your opportunities, and pick one to start with. Even if it's just a tiny step.
Re: Another setback frustrated [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10079.msg147371#msg147371 date=1425471370] You've got to get out there, find sympathetic people, and work on it. And to hell what they think about you or your dog (if they are unkind enough to think anything bad anyway). [/quote] Absolutely true, my Charlie doesn't get to interact with many dogs other than Hattie due to the early hour he is walked 0600 and where we live which is rural. I have asked anyone and everyone where we live if we can walk with them and their calm dogs and they have all been more than happy to oblige and Charlie is benefiting hugely from his group walks and he has been invited back every week Use whatever resources you have to help Penny it's all too easy to avoid situations rather than confront them Come on Lauren make that list xx
Re: Another setback frustrated I'm a bit late with this sorry. First of all it wasn't your fault. That woman shouldn't have had her dog loose if she couldn't recall it. That doesn't really help you though. I think what you need to do is decide what you want penny to do. You already have a good recall away from dogs which is a massive achievement. Do you want penny to learn to interact with other dogs or are you happy with the way things are and just work more on her reaction on lead if a dog comes over ? Do you think penny is the type of dog who wants to interact with others ? You say she tolerates the group walk dogs because they leave her alone so maybe penny is a people dog not a doggy dog. Would she be happy interacting with other dogs? You could take her to the park you mentioned on lead to work on her reaction on lead to other dogs. Lauren you have made huge progress with penny you shouldn't feel embarrassed you have taught her and can control her. With reactive dogs there will always be blips and I think they are always going to be a work in progress to some extent. The problem is you can't control what and how the trigger behaves . Crickey if you think you feel like a bad owner there's no hope for me my dogs behave like that with people. !!!
