The decision has been made NOT to get barley x-rayed for the time being. Instead we are going to start treating him as if he has arthritis but not knowing for sure. We are going to start him on an exercise regime to build up his fitness and his muscles up but only to a level that he is comfortable with. We are going to keep a detailed diary of when any stiffness or lameness is shown so if possible we can source possible factors making him worse. He is going to be put on arthritis specific joint supplements instead of general joint supplements. We are going to pay extra careful attention to his weight and keep him slim, monitoring his food and treat intake and adjusting according to his weight and exercise. We have other things in plan for him to help and support him as much as we can. We have decided that if he gets noticeable worse we will get him x-rayed as it could not be arthritis, it could be a number of things but most possible outcome is that it is arthritis. My question is, are we doing the right thing or is this going to cause him more harm than good?
Re: Are we doing the right thing? Why have you decided not to x-ray? On advice from vet? If you had an x-ray, you would know one way or the other
Re: Are we doing the right thing? [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4530.msg55380#msg55380 date=1392837057] Why have you decided not to x-ray? On advice from vet? If you had an x-ray, you would know one way or the other [/quote] Due to financial reasons at this moment in time we can afford to spend £350 on x-rays for him and insurance will not cover it as it is an existing condition as we changed insurers but did not expect him to go downhill so quickly. Not spoken to vet, i am not a fan of them, have not had the best experiences with them so i do not trust them. We are discussing about moving vets but nothing confirmed yet.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? I can understand making this decision but I would want to make it with input from a good vet. If you don't like your vet you should definitely find one that you do. Can someone like PDSA help? I know they've been mentioned before I'm not sure how it works though. To be honest if it was me I would be x-raying so I knew one way or the other but as it stands my insurance would cough up.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? Meg was diagnosed with HD and OCD 6 years ago this year. She had a course of cartrophen and then started hydrotherapy. Could you consider that? The hydrotherapy has really helped her, she's built muscle around the joints and even though she's soon 14 she runs like the clappers down the park. That was the only treatment our vet at the time recommended but a session costs between £20 and £30. At least that's the cost here in Derbyshire. Megs insurance covers the cost but she developed the HD and OCD when she was 8 and we had the insurance from when she was a puppy. Maybe its something you could look into. Ultimately maybe you could discuss it with your vet or look into getting another vet. Jen
Re: Are we doing the right thing? [quote author=lablover link=topic=4530.msg55394#msg55394 date=1392838318] Meg was diagnosed with HD and OCD 6 years ago this year. She had a course of cartrophen and then started hydrotherapy. Could you consider that? The hydrotherapy has really helped her, she's built muscle around the joints and even though she's soon 14 she runs like the clappers down the park. That was the only treatment our vet at the time recommended but a session costs between £20 and £30. At least that's the cost here in Derbyshire. Megs insurance covers the cost but she developed the HD and OCD when she was 8 and we had the insurance from when she was a puppy. Maybe its something you could look into. Ultimately maybe you could discuss it with your vet or look into getting another vet. Jen [/quote] We have tried hydrotherapy with him before, but he hated it and was not worth the stress for him, he would not even go onto the treadmill, he had to picked up and put in it (not an easy task with a 40kg furball who wants to be as far away from it as possible). We have considered acupuncture, but one vet said it would not help arthritis and the other said it would so we were left a bit confused ???
Re: Are we doing the right thing? Oh it's a difficult one Annabelle. Why can't we have an NHS for our furry friends. Could you discuss with vet that the cost of x rays would be difficult to find. I know our vets are open to discussion about paying if you're experiencing financial difficulties. They have a sign up in the waiting room. Jen x
Re: Are we doing the right thing? The thing is, almost all dogs need veterinary care at some point. You simply cannot afford to avoid the entire profession. And let’s face it, legally, your dog is entitled to veterinary treatment when he needs it... Your family really needs to find a vet you have confidence in. And fortunately there are lots of vets in the uk. It’s definitely worth getting a second, or even third opinion. Ultimately, your dog needs a vet and so do you.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? [quote author=editor link=topic=4530.msg55402#msg55402 date=1392839061] The thing is, almost all dogs need veterinary care at some point. You simply cannot afford to avoid the entire profession. And let’s face it, legally, your dog is entitled to veterinary treatment when he needs it... Your family really needs to find a vet you have confidence in. And fortunately there are lots of vets in the uk. It’s definitely worth getting a second, or even third opinion. Ultimately, your dog needs a vet and so do you. [/quote] He does go to the vet when he needs to go, albeit with a push and shove from me as dad does not always think it is necessary, like when he first went lame and was still lame even after several days of rest. They were the ones who wanted to get him x-rayed, in total we have seen 4 different vets at the same practice about his hips, all with different opinions and views, which is making it more confusing for us to make a decision.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? You could explain to the vet that your find the cost a bit prohibitive at this time, it never used to be so expensive, fees are getting a bit silly now I feel. They may reduce the fee if you are not insured or let you pay monthly.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? [quote author=Stacia link=topic=4530.msg55417#msg55417 date=1392840123] You could explain to the vet that your find the cost a bit prohibitive at this time, it never used to be so expensive, fees are getting a bit silly now I feel. They may reduce the fee if you are not insured or let you pay monthly. [/quote] nope our vets won't do that, all has to be paid on time of consultation, the only time we have been allowed to pay overdue at another time was when it was a few pence and dad did not have his credit card with him so payed in cash but did not have any coin change, he only had 20's in his wallet, it was £40 and a few pence so they let us pay at the follow up consultation
Re: Are we doing the right thing? I suppose there are other things you need to consider here..... If the xrays just show arthritis, then you will be doing what you have outlined, just £350 the poorer. If they show HD, ED or something else that needs surgery, then not only will you have the cost of the x-ray, but also the cost of surgery - the direct costs, and indirect cost e.g. will dad need time off, will there be extra follow up meds and appointments. Do you (or your Dad obviously) have the money to pay for this, or would it be covered by insurance. If there is no way you could afford the surgery, then does "just knowing" justify the outlay of the x-rays? Balance that out with, what are the chances that the x-ray will improve quality of life for Barley in the medium to long term? I think that is where the vet comes in maybe. Not easy, but I guess bottom line, Annabelle, your Dad rather than you is the one making the final decision. I assume you are providing supporting arguments. Hoping this all works out for the best xx
Re: Are we doing the right thing? Have you actually spoken to the vet about it? Most practices expect to be paid at the time as a matter of course, so I expect receptionist was just following practice policy, but having a word could change this. My vet will be reasonable if people are finding a big outlay difficult.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? [quote author=Puppypal link=topic=4530.msg55396#msg55396 date=1392838524] We have tried hydrotherapy with him before, but he hated it and was not worth the stress for him, he would not even go onto the treadmill, he had to picked up and put in it (not an easy task with a 40kg furball who wants to be as far away from it as possible). We have considered acupuncture, but one vet said it would not help arthritis and the other said it would so we were left a bit confused ??? [/quote] There will always be some differences of opinion over treatments such as acupuncture... you will also get differences of opinion as to how to proceed until you have a definite diagnosis, for which - unfortunately from the point of view of your bank balance - you'd need the x-rays. Having said that, I would look very carefully at possible treatment options from the perspective of what has a proven benefit. If you are not going to get any insurance cover, you need to target the treatment he gets at what is most likely to give Barley benefit. Monitoring Barley's weight and food intake seems a very sensible way forward. As to the supplements... this was discussed on a thread the other day and I seem to remember that the conclusion was that benefits remained unproven. Julie looked into it in detail and I think she decided that Charlie was going on supplements because it might be worth it in the long run... she'd certainly be the one to ask about which supplements and proven efficiency! Just be careful that you don't end up spending the same sum as the cost of the x-rays on treatments which may not be doing anything helpful at all... I would certainly follow-up on the others suggestions of talking to the vet re the finance. They may well give you some flexibility if you ask, but if you don't ask... I know it is usually your dad who makes vet visits with you. Would he be happy to help you negotiate with the vet? I think vets will tend to be reasonable if you discuss it with them - have you already made it clear to them that your insurance will not cover you for this? An x-ray will not just give you a confirmed diagnosis, but it will also give you a picture of the current state of his joints. This will help you plan his longer term treatment and enable you to know if drastic action is going to be required sooner, later or possibly not at all. The advantage of this is that you will then be able to plan financially for the necessary... Good luck with talking things through with your dad and the vet. Clare
Re: Are we doing the right thing? jacqui: thats also what i am worried about, we know his hips are not in a good state but we don't know how bad a state they are in and whether he will need surgery at all. If it is anything to do with his front legs then insurance will cover it as we have never been to the vets about his front leg limp before only his hips. After some searching last night me and dad came across this https://www.zoomadog.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=4 dad has agreed to buy it in hope that it will help him get around easier when he is out and about, aslong as he is comfortable wearing it. We have not made any decisions about what joint supplement he is going to go on, but we are going to discuss this with the vet next time we speak to them to see what would be the most benefivcial to him and whether acupuncture of physiotherapy will help him, we will also discuss a possible payment plan if we get him x-rayed
Re: Are we doing the right thing? So in some ways he has been getting better but other ways he has been getting worse. All his itching has stopped since putting him back on piriton which is great, one less thing to worry about for the time being. His back legs seem to have got a little worse, but then it might just be that while i was on the dorset trip i saw lots and lots of active dogs who walked normally and coming home and seeing barley has made me see the difference between him and other dogs. He is slower in getting up now, that is a definite change, we do want to get him a nice thick supportive bed but he likes to chew his beds so that is not going to happen any time soon. He is going to be starting some stronger supplements soon to try and make him more comfortable for the time being. He has got to go for his booster jab during easter so we will speek to the vet we get for that and see if we could work out a payment plan for when we get his x-rays done and talk about all the things we can do to make him more comfortable and if there are any other tests or things that could be done that are cheaper than x-rays to shine some light on what is wrong with him. If he does have x-rays i will try and push dad towards letting him have a blood test as well just to be on the safe side and make sure nothing else more sinister is going on.
Re: Are we doing the right thing? I don't know if this is a really mad idea, Annabelle, but when I was your age and wanted something, the rule (generally) was that if I found a % of the money, mum and dad would make it up. The % was up for negotiation. I particularly remember wanting a new saddle, which was very expensive and that I didn't really need. It was about £300, which if you consider inflation, was a lot of money when I was 14! My mum said that I had to find 50%. I think she thought that I'd never do it, so her £125 was safe. I managed to get a job in a small local hotel on a Saturday (it wasn't easy getting a job at 14, might be impossible now), went potato picking (that was hell, I only did one day), strawberry picking, and looked after my neighbour's horse, cat, goldfish and budgie for a few weeks when they went on holiday (the budgie died, but luckily it was old so I wasn't blamed). I got my saddle!
Re: Are we doing the right thing? I will contibute as much as i can to his x-rays. I get around £5 a week for helping my friend feed and walk her dogs, sometimes more when i do more stuff and sometimes less as she does not always work a late during every week, currently that is all saved up for crufts tommorow, but will start building up again when i start going to hers again as she is off this week and i missed the only late she has last week due to the geography trip. I try my best to get things as cheap as possible when we need for the dogs to save money, i do a lot of shopping around on the internet to find the cheapest of the things we need and can save several quid by doing this and only ordering stuff that we need and when we need it, like this month we need worming for barley and flea treatments for both of them, bulk buying the stuff is the cheapest way that we have found to get this as it saves on having to pay for 2 lots of P & P
Re: Are we doing the right thing? [quote author=Puppypal link=topic=4530.msg58954#msg58954 date=1394118389] but will start building up again when i start going to hers again as she is off this week and i missed the only late she has last week due to the geography trip. [/quote] That's the spirit, maybe have a look round and see whether there is anything else too. Good luck. If I can think of anything, I'll let you know. I once sold macrame plant pot covers...that wasn't my best idea, as they were very boring to make. I think I raised about £25 though - that was for 25% of the cost of the labrador puppy, Jups. These days, with ebay, you might have more options...
Re: Are we doing the right thing? When I had Oscars hips xrayed he was in agony for a few days after, so leaving it could potentially make it more painful if its gotten worse? Id also ask vet to refer you for hydro therapy, many insurances do cover you for this its well worth it! Good luck!
