My dog is currently about 7.5 months old. Ever since he was about 4 months old, he’s been very nervous around new people. He used to simply sniff cautiously and back up. I have worked with him since this time with lots of treats and having him sit and focus on me. I also would have the new people offer him treats and let him decide when he was ready to meet them. He eventually always warms up to new people and begs them for petting. Recently, he will bark at some people, but not all people, who pass by him on walks/hikes. He only does this when I’ve stopped to have him sit and focus on me. It’s escalated into him being so nervous that he won’t even take a treat and will bark at the strangers. Oddly, he doesn’t bark if I keep walking with him and we pass by the people, even when very close. He also does not bark at people who have a dog with them. Any thoughts on how I can work on this problem? I would ideally like to get to a point where he sits quietly around strangers and let me politely tell then he’s not fond of strangers petting him.
I have a simillar situation with Kona (because of the medical reasons). We worked on the desensibilazation and c. conditioning in order to create a positive relation with strangers. I did not ask her to sit nicely beside them until she was confortable enough to walk by them without the negative reaction. There is valiable literature that can help you understand you dog better and help him overcome his fear - B. A. T. 2, Control Unleashed...
Thanks for the reply. At this point in time, I’m working on desensitization with him, but he’s so nervous he won’t take a treat or focus on anything but the other person/people nearby. This makes it hard to create a positive relation with strangers I’ve read several books and had a behaviorist come in and consult with me. If anyone has more tips to help my dog’s progress, it would be appreciated.
Sarah Stremming says that when a dog is going through a fear period, the best thing to do is avoid the trigger at all cost, and that attempting to "work through it" can actually be detrimental. I would advise listening to the Cog Dog Radio podcasts, specifically the episodes about puppies.
Would a fear period be almost 4 months long? I certainly don’t want to make things worse if he is having a long fear period. I’ll definitely listen to the podcast, thanks!
I'm no expert, just relaying what I've heard in these podcasts, but she says they can be long, yes - or it may be that the DS/CC work you were doing (in good faith, I've done it myself) actually caused the fear to stick, as he was exposed to it more than he could cope with. I'd like to spend some time reading around the topic more when I'm not so busy.
Good to know! I’ll do some reading on it as well to see what I can find and listen to those podcasts. Hopefully since he’s so young he’ll grow out of this period and some further work and CC/DS down the road will help. For now, I’ll not expose him too much and see if that helps him. Of course, as I say this he’s laying on a stranger’s lap in his training facility’s lobby and begging for petting and love with his tongue hanging out of the side of his mouth. Makes me hopeful that one day he’ll grow out of this! I just hate seeing him so nervous.
Hmmm....I heard so much about the 'second fear period' that I sat down and trailed back through all the literature available on puppy development to find anything about it and came up with nothing. And I spent a lot of time on it. It's definitely a thing on internet sites, even well known trainers will discuss it like everyone knows it's true, and it's routinely discussed just about everywhere, but nowhere I can trace it back to any kind of study or concrete evidence. Time to time when an experienced trainer has mentioned the 'second fear stage' I've gently challenged them on it, and they have ended up admitting they can't evidence it, and it's just something everyone says. Anecdotally, some adolescent dogs get a bit spooky at things they have previously been ok with. Patricia McD calls this juvenile-onset shyness, which I think is a much better term - but even she asks for studies etc. to confirm her own observations (yet billions of other websites just repeat the term as though it's a set in stone, concrete, well proven thing...). I'm open to anyone pointing to articles and studies though - completely appreciate my random, amateur, investigations mean very little. I'd say a problem that was always a problem with a dog, and seems to be getting worse, is a problem and not a 'fear period' or 'juvenile-onset shyness', which as far as I can tell, is about shyness with things the dog was previously ok with.
Sarah Stremming doesn't talk about it in quite the same terms, I don't think. It's not "a second fear period", she talks about "going in and out of fear periods" as if there are several. Whether it's a "thing" or not, her thoughts are pretty interesting; if the dog suddenly starts reacting fearfully to something where there was no reaction before, and there has been no (obvious) traumatic event, then in her view, the best thing to do is simply stop the puppy experiencing that trigger and they will get over it on their own. DS/CC might make it worse - maybe simply through lack of skill of the handler, of course. Whereas if there has been a traumatic event, then DS/CC is absolutely appropriate. I can't say it's true, but discussions around reactive behaviours of course pique my interest because of the dogs I have. Even if there is truth in this, I don't believe that it would have changed the eventual outcome because W&S are just nervous dogs - that's there personality. But I do wonder if by shielding them from strangers and children, who they suddenly became reactive to without trauma and where there was no reactivity before, could that have saved me from the long slog? I'll obviously never know and I really don't know how it could be studied to determine which is the better option for any single dog in a single situation.
Well, the OP posted about a puppy nervous of strangers from 4 months - the closing of the socialisation window or just after - which has got worse. Not that the puppy that was ok, and then suddenly developed a fear. It seems different from W&S - and I've heard your story all the way through. For what it is worth, I think your problems stem from the underlying temperament of the dogs. I'd put money on it.
I would say his fear came on quite suddenly. We socialized him well during his socialization period and he was very friendly and would go up to anyone and accept attention or simply let people pass with no issue. He also happily accepted all guests to the house with no issue. One day he just stopped this friendliness with some people and started backing away with fear and barks at people who approach. He may just be a nervous dog, which I’m happy to work on with him. He may never be the stereotypical overly friendly lab, but the barking at strangers is a behavior I’d like to eventually stop and have him focus on me.
But you originally said: So this doesn't sound like an onset of adolescence or something overly complex about fear periods. It sounds like from a young age (4 months) your puppy hasn't been ok with new people, and then you say 'recently' it's been getting worse.
Fair point. The fearfulness started suddenly at about 4 months old and has escalated in certain circumstances as he’s aged. He’s ok with new people in some circumstances and not ok in other circumstances. Obviously we can’t know exactly what’s going on in his head, which would make things much easier! Maybe it’s not a fear period. Maybe it is. My main goal at this point is figuring out a way to help him feel more comfortable in all situations.
Ok - well. You also say: So that's a good solution day to day - keep walking, your dog feels more comfortable with that. In what situations does he bark when you can't keep walking - when you stop to chat to someone maybe?
