Hi all I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right category but it is a behaviour issue so I guess I am. I was just wondering if anybody has or has had experience of their lab barking when strangers (to them) come near enough to touch. My two are really nervous if people they don't know come too near. Their body language is submissive not aggressive and they back up but bark. This has been going on since they were about 6 months. Of course people see cute lab pups and assume they can stroke they get a shock ! I have a good idea why they are so nervous. When they were about 3 months they had prolonged veterinary treatment due to misdiagnosis (I was not happy ) for a bladder infection. After 6 weeks of going back and forth to the vet and being given antibiotics every time they eventually took a sterile sample with a catheter . It turned out they had e Coli in their bladder and because it had gone on for so long had developed struvite crystals. They had to have 6 weeks of antibiotics, a special diet for the crystals and catheters ever 2 weeks ! On the last vet visit for a catheter they obviously decided they'd had enough of being taken away and prodded backed themselves into a corner and started barking. In the end I held them while the vet did the procedure. By then they were about 6 months and have barked at strangers ever since I guess you can't blame them. Before this ' ordeal ' they greeted people with usual puppy exuberance. They are improving however. I am trying to desensitise them. I've tried various things over the last 18 months but find having very smelly salmon dog treats in my hand diverts their attention. They will approach people more now but if they feel the person is getting a bit too familiar they back off and may bark especially if the person doesn't take the hint. I just wondered if anybody else had barking nervy dogs. My last lab loved everybody and everything. If somebody was walking towards us they must've been coming to play with him so this behaviour is strange to me. I'm sorry this post has got so long I must try to be more concise in future. Thank you from the newbie Jen
Re: Barking at strangers Hi Jen, my Poppy was very nervy up until just recently. She used to back up, growl and bark at strangers, and sometimes still gets freaked by people she doesnt know. She hates anyone bending down over her and staring her in the eyes. But with a lot of positive reinforcement (same as you, high-value treats and a lot of praise when she walks by people to heel without growling or barking), and with quite a lot of hard work on our part (i.e. taking her all over the place, to school, to the market, to flea markets, etc) she has slowly become very, very much better. I do think it is probably harder for you with two dogs, as they reinforce each other's behaviour. Debsie has two dogs, one of whom is also rather nervous; I am sure she will also be able to give you good advice.
Re: Barking at strangers Thanks Karen to be honest it's just good to know I'm not the only one. Did wonder if I just had freakish Labradors ;D The way Poppy reacted to strangers sounds just like my two and your right about 2 dogs one can set off the other and usually does. Thanks again. Jen
Re: Barking at strangers Jen I can't help with your issue...but what a nightmare with their never ending treatment,awful
Re: Barking at strangers Hi Jen, yes nervy Lab owner here! As Karen said I have two labs, yin and yang, one is really nervy, the other the most laid back young man in the world. I have had a whole lot of sucess with Cuillin recently following Behavioural Adjustment Therapy principles, really good books on Amazon on this, and I think a link on this site under Behavoiural Issues. A lot of it is common sense but reading up on nervous reactivity, and learning how dogs 'think' in these situations, and following the progressive plans, has been really good. I think the trick with desentisisation and counterconditioning your dogs is to get a really clear idea of their threshold, and keep working at just below that, it will rise over time. Also just accepting its going to be a long haul if they have been rehearsing this behaviour for a while. Cuillin is nervous of some strange dogs in the distance when she is off lead, barks, and legs it looking really scared. I have had to spend ages watching for her early stress signs (with her, she changes her ear position, slightly blows out her cheeks), using the Look at That Exercise, and making that instant a Good Experience (hot gammon, hot chicken, smoked sausage) and then taking her away from the fear inducing thing quickly using the same phrase so she knows there is no need to react, Boss Mum will get me out of here, and anyway, when I see dogs something crackingly good is given to me....its taken me a while to recognise how she looks just before she reacts, and to get her threshold down, and its difficult to not blow it because we live in busy worlds and can't always manage our dogs environment, unpredictable things happen, but she is a whole lot better. Would highly recommend BAT, I can PM you if you want more info
Re: Barking at strangers Hi Debsie Thanks so much for the advice. Everything you've said makes sense. This morning on our walk we met an older lady who I've known a long time but the dogs have always barked at. She is hard of hearing so always comes close and wafts her hands about a lot !! Today she walked along with us for quite a way and I was really pleased with the dogs as they didn't bother at all until we stopped at the top of a road to go separate ways. We had to move for a car and Scott did one small bark at her . I think I know why. We moved backward as she moved towards us to a dog we were backing off she was coming at us I guess/I think !? so he felt threatened. Getting into a dogs head is complicated. I have looked at BAT and thought about trying it. I wasn't sure which book to go for. Can you recommend any and will it work for 2 dogs. I find a lot of training methods are for one dog and not that easy to alter for 2 ? More info would be great but I haven't got a clue what PM means need to learn forum lingo. Thanks again Jen
Re: Barking at strangers Hi Jen The book I've been referred to and use is: Behavior Adjustment Training: BAT for Fear, Frustration, and Aggression in Dogs, Grisha Stewart. You can buy on Amazon. I would say that as well as using this book I've worked a fair bit on building Cuillin's confidence in general, not just around the specific fear situation. Might be a coincidence, but I've been doing a lot of Gun Dog style Retrieving work with her recently too, she is really good at it and really loves it. I think doing stuff she is successful at has boosted her general confidence levels too. Also if we are retrieving and a strange dog is in the distance she more often than not won't react, as she is so focused on what she is doing and her interaction with me (and her beloved Rabbit Skin Dummy)....also, some things get better with just repeated exposure and ignoring reactions, but with other fears or levels of fear flooding your dog can make them worse...I 'm not experienced enough in this kind of thing to know for sure when to tackle, and when to ignore reactions, so I sought the advice of a trainer/behaviourist who specialises in reactivity, who spent a bit of time with me and Cuiilin on a walk, just to make sure the apoproach I thought best was the right one... Intersting the two dog thing. I've found that its best to teach my two things individually first, but once they have the behaviour I want, I then do Pack Training on it, as the Pack thing will change how they behave quite often. BAT needs a lot of focus, and your dogs may have different thresholds, so I would have thought probably best to take them out separately at first, to really suss out who gets spooked by what and when, as well as together. Brods gets a lot of peanut butter Kongs in his crate while I take Cuilli out for ten mins in the park to work with her... if you have someone in your area experienced with fear reactivity, might be worth a quick visit. I know it really helped me, more to give me the reassurance I was on the right track...quite a tricky thing to manage sometimes and as a first time dog owner this seemed a good thing...you seem more experienced than me so might not be necessary, but I guess with two reactive dogs that might be helpful...
Re: Barking at strangers Hi again Debsie Thanks for your advice again. I'll have a look for that book on amazon. Ive found some BAT training info I'd downloaded not sure if it's all the same thing. I know what you mean about getting advice from some one to confirm your doing the right thing. I've had labs for best part of 17 years now but as you might be able to tell from my posts I still wonder if I'm doing things the right way or not, especially when it's behaviour and can take time to see results. That's why I'm glad I found the forum. I'm the dog 'specialist' in my family. If any of the other dogs in my extended family has a problem they come to me. Of course it's easier if it's not your own dog you can advise impartially upto a point but I will always question myself when it comes to my own which is not a bad thing I suppose it's constant learning !!! Thanks again I'll let you know how BAT goes Jen
