Hi all, A long time ago I promised to write about our struggle with Finn. We love him dearly, but he is such a handful! It all started at his birth we think. Three pups were born normally, but four others came with a cesarean sectio. One of the pups was blocking the way out. After a week the mother became ill. She had severe mastitis, and had to get a high dose of antibiotics which were not suited for the puppies. She got a harness and was left with her pups but not breastfeed anymore. The breeder took over that job, I highly praise her for doing so! After a few days the bitch didn't want to have anything to do with the puppies. She was still very ill. The breeder took the mother away for her own good so that she was able to get the rest she so needed. The breeder let grandma so now and then in charge of the litter. Mother happened to have a thyroid gland problem, for which she is getting medication. After 7,5 weeks, just before Christmas we could come and collect our bundle of joy. He was our third lab. The older lab Euan who we still have was then 8 years old. He was not thrilled to see his new brother. He wanted to have the same attention the Finn was getting. We had a crate for Finn, not only for his own good, but also to give his big brother a bit of space peace and quiet. I went in January with Finn to puppy class. He did very well and we both succeeded! In April the next course started, so we had to wait a little, but then we started qlicker training. That didn't work out for me... I had to bent to often and with my bad back it was a huge problem. So we didn't proceed and stopped and waited to go further on the next round of training. Pity, the only course we could join was the one who was going to start in September. Knowing that we would go on holiday in September and I had to go into a rehabilitation clinic for my back problems in October in Germany. So no more training courses until my husband started in January. He succeeded that one, but the next was a disaster.... As for the first year, we didn't have Finn in our own house because of me. We went on vacation in September and therefore Finn had to stay in a Kennel. The kennel we choose was a small one, the family had to an amount of 8 dogs, and they were having there own bed ( crate) in the house. Euan wasn't there, he stayed with someone else because he was operated on a herniated disc and the stitches had to be removed and he had full crate rest. No one trained Finn, so for bad behavior, I don't know what the family did for his training skills. After our holiday Finn came for 2weeks to us, and after that he again went to the kennel for I had to go for rehabilitation to Germany for 6 weeks. All that time Finn was in the kennel. So January this year we could finally starting to where we left off, my husband went to dog training, and three times a week they go with the dog walker. That is because they can walk, run, swim with other dogs, and I can't walk that far, so I can't give them the so needed excersises! Finn had a strange habit. He is lurking on his cuddle as if he is drinking from his mother. He did that only for one week...... He still needs his cuddle, when in distress, he grabs his cuddle and start lurking! In his puppy time his was one time run over by a mountain biker. My husband was letting them out in the woods when the pedestrian crossed the mountain bike trail. Dogs were allowed to go off lead. Finn ran into the mountain biker and after ran off. My husband had to search 2 hours for him until he found him! Luckily he wasn't injured but had a terrible fright!!! From that time on I think, he was having problems with bikers. As a lot of people ride a bike here, it is an annoying problems. He starts barking and go towards the bikers when he sees them. We did socialize him with other dogs. From little boy, when he had all vaccinations he was allowed to go with the dog walker. It is a company who collect to a maximum of 8 dogs with a bus, and then go out for a walk with two persons. She is well trained and has a lot of knowledge about dogs and dogs behavior. But with our Finn she can't help us! Finn isn't nice to little puppies. For example, this weekend we met a pup of 11 weeks old. He started his barking and growling at the little one, who was terrified. Our Euan was there too, perhaps that that was the problem, Finn defending Euan for Euan 's eyesight is not so good anymore? When we meet other dogs, other dogs are afraid of Finn. In our house Finn is frightened. He starts barking when he thinks he hear something. Also watch television with us. We can't look at nature documentaries for Finn starts barking all the time. We see Finn becomes more and more frightened,why we don't know. Are we doing something wrong? People are afraid when they see Finn, Finn pulls at the lead, that I forgot to tell. Maybe I am forgetting something, but it will come later..... I started excercing again. He does well, but I think we need a lot of patience with him Annemarie
I forgot one very important thing! Finn is neutered because of his behavioral problems. I was against it, my husband wanted to let him undergo his neutering. We had also been advised to do so, from several people, for instance the woman of the kennel didn't want him back before he was "helped", the dog walker told us it would do him no harm, and my husband who was letting the dog out most of time in the evening didn't want to go out with him when he was behaving like he did. The problems are not solved, I think what you all warned me of is that he could become more frightened is happening now..... Annemarie
It sounds as if you are having a pretty hard time with Finn. His behaviour with cyclists is understandable if he was knocked over by one, but his behaviour can be changed with time and training and a programme of de-sensitivity. Have you thought about seeing a behaviourist with Finn to try identify and help him overcome his fears?
Hi Annemarie. It really does sounds like some one-on-one sessions with a behaviourist might be the way to go. Fear is a tricky thing to work through and will take a lot of time and patience to work through. I'm a bit confused by something, when you said you had to give up clicker training because there was too much bending - I don't understand this. If you can't bend to give the dog a treat, you can just drop it on the floor. Most of my treats are delivered by throwing them away from me, no bending necessary I got Willow over her fear of bikes (motorbikes and bicycles) by clicker training and using a "look at that" method. She never had a bad experience with them, but never came across them until she was about nine months old, and just didn't understand them. She would bark even if we passed one in the car, or if we walked past one in a car park with no-one on it. Now, she trots by quite happily, whether it's flying down the mountain or going along the road, without a second glance. I wouldn't really know where to start without clicker training (or using a verbal event marker, which amounts to the same thing). A professional behaviourist will come and see Finn in his home environment and out and about, to be able to make a thorough assessment of what is causing his issues, and therefore coming up with a plan on how to address them. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
It certainly sounds as if advice and help from a professional behaviourist would be useful. Finn has had several difficult episodes in his life, so he needs extra help in getting him to overcome his fear. Let us know how you get on.
Sorry to hear about your problems with Finn, Annemarie. It does sound like there are an awful lot of things you are struggling with right now. You have had a lot of personal stresses to contend with. On-to-one personalised advice definitely sounds like the best way to start get some help. Could you perhaps ask your vet if he or she could recommend someone? I know that will cost a little money, which is why asking for a recommendation is important. Snowbunny is right though when she says clicker training doesn't need to involve bending down. I don't really use it, but it might be worth looking into? jac
Hi Annemarie, oh dear what a nightmare for you and poor Finn. I couldn't agree more you need to find a good behaviourist. Regarding clicker training I have a really bad spine and throw the treats on the floor. I think clicker training is amazing it's such a positive way to train. My girl is 10 months now and I realised on Friday she had never encountered a horse and was very scared (we are staying in a holiday cottage opposite an equestrian centre) today she walked passed the horses without barking, all thanks to me using the clicker. Good luck Best wishes Claire x
Anne I'm just coming by to let you know I've read your post.Finn has had a lot of change,disruption and lack of routine in his young life and I think you are seeing the effects now.I agree with the others,get some professional help to assess him and to help you build a training program urgently.Everything you are experiencing can be improved with training and consistency but you really need to start now.....I can tell you love him and want the best for him and it sounds like you've had a right run of health problems yourself to contend with.All the more important to begin serious work with Finn immediately.He will be a strong boy regardless ,but a strong ,fearful untrained boy will be dangerous to your health and Finn's own well being. You said your first training classes went well .....so go back to those basics in the house , get your clicker out and do simple things like your sit and down again with him.....it sounds too simple but he will enjoy it ,be occupied and it might help with his unhappiness in the house .....they love training and getting treats....I. Sure it would help his confidence in your home. Let us know how you proceed and come back for support and advice if you need it... Hope your back problems are settled too,you've all had quite a time x Best Wishes Angela x
After reading Angela's post, it occurred to me that teaching something like the sit and the down could mean quite a bit of bending over as you do the early stages of shaping (luring with the treat). But you can get over this by training him to target a pointer with his nose first, I use a target stick like this one, which is telescopic: http://www.amazon.co.uk/DOGSLINE-Ed...4725320&sr=8-3&keywords=dogsline+target+stick Anyway, that's a bit of an aside! I hope you find someone to help you through this. Good luck.
Hi Anne. I have two labs who are very nervous of people they don't know and can be very reactive a bit like Finn and bikes. Their problems started as puppies as well. They are now four and have improved to the point where they will now take treats from people's hands who at one time wouldn't have been able to get near. It does take time, patience and work but it can be done. I agree with the advice you've been given about seeing a behaviourist if that's possible. I would also recommend the book Why Does My Dog Do That by Caroline Spencer. It's available on Amazon if you can buy from Amazon uk. Its about training nervous/scared dogs starting with the most important thing which is getting the dog to trust you to keep him safe so he doesn't have to react and bark when he hears a strange noise or sees a bike. It can feel like hard work dealing with a nervous dog but you will get there. If you train a cue which means you will deal with any 'danger' Finn will be able to relax more and then you might find his behaviour will alter and he will be easier to train. To train a Deal with Danger cue decide on a word for example 'Thank You'. Whenever Finn barks say the cue then move Finn. For example if someone knocks, he barks, cue word and move Finn to a different room while you answer the door then let him go to the door if the person has gone away so he can see you've delt with it or if it's a visitor let him meet them. If Finn barks at a bike say cue word then turn away from the bike and change direction so your taking him away from the monster bike. Your basically saying to the dog thank you for letting me know I will deal with it now. This applies to anything he reacts to you must be proactive and take him away from the scary situation so he learns he can trust you to choose 'flight' which means he doesn't feel he has to 'fight' which are the two options a dog has fight or flight and nervous dogs would much rather choose flight. Eventually he won't feel the need to react he may just look at you for the cue. The book explains this much better obviously but also works on other areas which all come together to build trust. Good luck with Finn I'm sure you'll work it out.
Thank you all for answering my post! To give an answer about bending with the qlicker training, I had to give him the treat from underneath, and had to start by quickly going through my knees and up again.... It was like gymnastics for me, not for the dog. I told the lady that it was impossible for me to do, then she wanted me to ty Finn to the fence so that I could use both hands to keep in balance. I found it rather strange too, but I thought it was done by a trainer at a kinology club, so she was right.... I started training Finn myself with clicker training and the option with targeting looks fine to me! Also to have some help of a therapist had come to my mind. My brother in law is a therapist, I will ask him about Finn. I will let you know how we are going on! Annemarie
Hi Annemarie, sorry to hear you are having issues with Finn. Where do you live? I think that continuing to do gentle training with Finn will be the thing. He needs lots of positive reassurance, so he gradually learns that he has nothing to be afraid of. For instance, with the bikes, you can slowly get him used to them by having someone you know ride a bike quite a way away from him, where he can see the bike but not be afraid of it or be concerned by it. At that point, have him sit and look at you while the bike goes past. Give him lots of praise and treats. Then the bike rider can pass by again, a little bit closer, again with lots of treats and praise. Slowly, over several days and weeks, you can decrease the distance between Finn and the bike. Eventually he will learn just to sit and look at you when a bike comes near, and will no longer be afraid. You can use this technique for all kinds of things, it is called desensitization. It does need patience and time, but it really works. I also think that one-to-one training with a good trainer, and then working in a group situation, would help. Good luck and please keep us updated!
You are welcome. And also take a look at Jen's recent thread about her dogs Scott and Scout. She has been doing lots of gentle desensitization work with them, very successfully! Here is the link to her thread: http://thelabradorforum.com/forum/n...rador-behaviour/262951-scott-and-scout-update
My brother in law told me to check his T4. His mother had hypothyroidism during pregnancy. To rule something fysical out we can have a blood check. As Finn has to go to the vet for his yearly vaccination we want to check this first. Annemarie
Went to the vet this evening. Finn happened to have his yearly vaccinations. Normally he is hyperactive when we are there. Now he was very nice and did was he was told! Very obedient.... As if he knew we talked about his behavior... She found him a very lovely but naughty dog. Indeed need to repeat everything he and I had learned. She gave me the name of someone who can help me with it. She could see it was a acquired behavior, there is nothing wrong with the dog! So tomorrow I am going to ask for some help! I let you know how we are doing.
Sounds like your vet was very supportive, hope you can find a good behaviourist to help you too. best wishes
I talked to the behaviorist yesterday. She was with me while taking Euan to the vet. She will help me starting next week. Starting from all the way he learned as a puppy.... Annemarie
