Morning all Hope you'r all well. From 1 issue and now onto next I have Pippa's Happy Puppy book but need a bit more of an understanding as not sure what I to do as doing what's in book but still Ziva is persistent . So need to get this sorted When she nibbles on your hand we been giving her toy to bite onto sometimes it works other times she bites back on your hand but has your finger well and truly in her mouth and will not give it up, we say high pitched ouch makes no difference you can try pull your finger away but not good idea as she simply will not let go once I get my finger I stop play give her her toy then she happily play n bite it , She does same on occasion with t shirt but its almost like she turning it into a tug game. I get up walk away nothing is teaching this little madame the correct way. Help where am I going wrong I away to read chapter 19 Being polite .
Re: Bite Inhibition Hi Marie I read an interesting bit of advice the other evening in The Right Start which is also written by Pippa (I know it's a bit late to be reading this as Juno's 10 months but wanted the basis before going onto the gundog training grades) which I thought was helpful and practical. In this she advises that if the first warning i.e. you're ooh etc. doesn't stop your puppy you have to give a firmer warning, just as his mum would. This warning should be a Noooo or Arrgh, argghh in a grumpy growling tone. If he picks up the signal his tail should stop wagging for a second, he should look a bit worried, if he doesn't your warning isn't strong enough so you need to sound a bit fiercer. The thing to remember is to make the puppy stop, not become frightened of you. If the puppy comes back to bite hard again, Pippa says, he should be grasped firmly by the loose skin at either side of the neck and held still while you growl fiercely at him. If all else fails a time out with puppy in his crate to calm down for a few minutes. You should then start over again and great any new biting as a new incident. I guess in some ways we forget that we need to act as puppy's mum or other adult dog would in some instances and painful biting is one situation they would be very firm with. Hope things are better with Ziva soon and the biting improves.
Re: Bite Inhibition Thanks MaccieD Yes although i feel my tone is deeper it clearly isn't She is a very determined little girl but I no she do it once she understands what I'm asking of her lol Will give it a go P.s how do I get round when she sinks her teeth into clothing and she doesn't stop
Re: Bite Inhibition Not sure how to manage the hanging on to clothing - Pippa doesn't mention that! Perhaps to try the firm growl for her to release so that the clothing becomes a part of your body and is treated the same way? I suspect mum would growl whether a pup was hanging on her tail or her ear and it hurt. I'm so lucky that Juno was never a real biter and a few yelps stopped her very quickly perhaps one of the benefits of staying with mum until she was 10 weeks old, which is common here in France, having learnt a few more manners. Keep us informed on progress but remember it's just a phase they go through, just one of the more painful ones for us .
Re: Bite Inhibition Thanks again much appreciated We observed over lunch and it seems to get worse through excitement she was playing happy with her toys then did whaky races from living room to kitchen area and back again never seem that before . and while I was wiping her tray out from crate she went nuts jumping in and out of tray while I'm wiping biting onto my wrist /hand area so I went ahh really deeply she stopped then ran back into living room for whaky races. so now asleep in her crate but will be observing again to see when it get worse and if wee have that excitable time which I thing you just stop everything and put her in her crate , But not sure will she that as a punishment ?? as her crate meant to be her happy place which it is .
Re: Bite Inhibition All I did with Willow was persist with ignoring her when she tried to go too hard. At first I tried squeaking when it was too hard, but I found ignoring was more fruitful. I set up a scenario for her to learn this, rather than waiting for her to start getting over-excited; I crouched down on the floor next to her, in a position where I could spring up immediately, and started stroking her. The second she bit too hard, I stood, crossed my arms and ignored her. Then, maybe five seconds later, rinse and repeat. I think it has to be an immediate removal of attention like that and, when they're already over-excited, it's difficult to do that. I'm lucky in that she wasn't really a clothes-biter, but she did try for my fluffy slippers on occasion (people warned me they would be irresistible!). If she did this, I just put something between her and me so she couldn't continue. If I felt she was really over excited, she went in her crate until she calmed down. It was always with a chirpy voice (I can't remember what I said now, but maybe "ok, then, time for a break!") so she knew it wasn't punishment. As soon as she was calm, she was allowed out. Although, nine times out of ten, she'd curl up and go to sleep because she was simply over-tired! Let me just reassure you that, whilst it's painful and super frustrating at the time, it will soon be forgotten. It wasn't that long ago for me, really, but I honestly can't remember just how awful it was. I do know I was covered with scratches and bite marks for a while, and despaired as much as anyone else that it would ever end. I just look at it now through rose-tinted glasses and can't recall all the distress! I was incredibly lucky that Shadow didn't go through a crocopup phase with me at all; he was older when we brought him home and I think his litter mates and mum had sorted it out by then! Although he is a bit more of a nibbler now - always very gentle, but in the mornings, he likes to have a little chew on my fingers
Re: Bite Inhibition Thanks Snowbunny Ziva is very persistent once she get teeth into clothes she won't give it up despite you are as close to her teeth to catch the garment she in a way turn it into a tug game I don't speak to her I look away eventually she lets go and I give her her toy. What has became apparent since Lunch as she did exactly same thing the whakky races and really hard biting starts very soon after she has eaten this aft when she ran round front garden 20 min or so after food bit later feeding today but I picked her up and held on tight spoke gently till she calmed down as what's in my Happy Puppy Book she did wriggle and try to get to my hands/fingers but eventually she settled, When it happens again should I just pick her up as you say n time out time for a break n put her in crate ??? for how long thank you this one has deffo got me stumped lol lol
Re: Bite Inhibition You are not alone! It's an ongoing battle! Squeeling just hypes Monty up even more. He has ruined loads of clothes! You have to try and learn (we haven't yet) when he's getting over excited. And get him in his crate until he is calm. Usually he will go bananas in the crate and scratch up all the bedding and roll around in it, but then he will curl up asleep. This is from yesterday. I actually ended up with three of these all in the same spot. And a ripped Ralph Lauren Polo shirt!! Oh joy!
Re: Bite Inhibition OMG JAYMZ Poor you yes think I have to agree the ouchh when I say may excite her even more so going to try a different word as It means nothing to her when I say it. Ok when whaky races start I'll put her in her crate and take from there as she does seem to be alot worse with the nipping when the races start shortly after eating . She due to get fed at 7.30 but wil llet you know . thank you Hope you get Monty sorted Just to clarify pick up and say nothing just straight into crate ???
Re: Bite Inhibition Hi Boogie Feeding her Arden Grange Puppy Junior she is getting 50 grm x 4 feeds daily her weight on Monday was 5.2 kilo so exactly right amount of food for her weight
Re: Bite Inhibition [quote author=MaccieD link=topic=10674.msg158275#msg158275 date=1429698066] Hi Marie I read an interesting bit of advice the other evening in The Right Start which is also written by Pippa (I know it's a bit late to be reading this as Juno's 10 months but wanted the basis before going onto the gundog training grades) which I thought was helpful and practical. In this she advises that if the first warning i.e. you're ooh etc. doesn't stop your puppy you have to give a firmer warning, just as his mum would. This warning should be a Noooo or Arrgh, argghh in a grumpy growling tone. If he picks up the signal his tail should stop wagging for a second, he should look a bit worried, if he doesn't your warning isn't strong enough so you need to sound a bit fiercer. The thing to remember is to make the puppy stop, not become frightened of you. If the puppy comes back to bite hard again, Pippa says, he should be grasped firmly by the loose skin at either side of the neck and held still while you growl fiercely at him. If all else fails a time out with puppy in his crate to calm down for a few minutes. You should then start over again and great any new biting as a new incident.[/quote] I don't think this advice about grabbing is current any more and I would not do it. You run the risk of frightening your puppy or making them shy of your hands. Never physically punish. If walking away and ignoring the pup doesn't work because you get followed, then when biting occurs immediately put the pup into another (safe) room for a brief time-out/calm down (no more than 30 seconds). Don't use the crate - the crate is a safe haven, not a place for punishment. Use the bathroom or laundry or any safe room. You need to be patient and persistent It will work in the end.
Re: Bite Inhibition Rachael I am honestly at my wits end as I don't no how to sort , I wasn't keen on putting her in her crate as it is her safe haven and I will undo all the good work over the last 6 days. Even tonight I thought i would get her on my legs as was on floor with her to give her cuddles and she just constantly go for my PJ top tight grip so its difficult to get her teeth from it almost feel tonight as though she doesn't like me isn't interested in spending time with me she doesn't welcome me in same way as she did /does granny who lives next door or Iain my hubbie she wags her tail. so may need to go back a step and let her see I am fun to be with face but in my heart I no she only a baby an been here 6 days but I am honestly stumped by this one . Thank you everyone
Re: Bite Inhibition Redirect, redirect, redirect. When Maisie was little (well, she's still little, 6 months), there were frequent cries of "throw me a toy!!!!" heard when I had visitors over, because you could not "pet" her or really sit with her unless you had a toy in your hand to block her from chomping on you. Shoving the toy in her mouth and playing with her was the best way to deal with it. I also feel like ignoring when she bites is the best way. I never tried a high pitched squeal, but I said OUCH! and turned away. Best if you can stand up, cross your arms, and don't look at her or face her. Total removal of interest. I am convinced that redirection was a really good way to teach her not to bite people. I think she learned to redirect HERSELF through this method - for example, when she's on a walk and we meet someone she knows and loves (I often walk her over to my parents house), she gets super excited. Often she starts attacking her halter (ok so not the most awesome behaviour lol but) and I think it's because she's excited and wants to bite something and knows she doesn't bite humans so she bites that instead. She also goes and gets her toys and brings them to me because she knows that's a better way to interact with me than by chomping on me. So I really like the redirect. Maisie was never a huge grabber of clothing (unless you're trying to put on pants… she STILL wants to grab my pants when I go to put them on, including underpants… that's always fun) so I'm not sure what advice to offer on that. Could you put together a few toys made up of material like clothing to try to give her what she's after but in an approved way? For example, some old socks all knotted together to make a rope toy, or a tea towel tied in knots, or anything similar to that? If she really enjoys grabbing clothes having some approved "clothes-like" toys to play with may be something she would be interested in. Also… you've had her six days! It is normal to be frustrated/confused/not sure what you're doing at that point. Can you set up a training class or even a one to one with a trainer? I felt a lot more settled and able to picture moving forwards with Maisie once I had training set up because I had a professional giving me advice. Also.. she's what, 8 weeks and 6 days old? The biting, for me, did not *stop* until she was through teething (lost all her baby teeth). And even now when she gets riled she kind of wants to bite, so she'll be wiggling about and have her mouth open and I stick my hand in her mouth to be like… you want to bite? Ok… bite me! And she's like "oh no… oh no I don't bite… bad dogs do that, I m not a bad dog…" Haha. So it's quite a long journey, she won't stop biting in just a day or so.
Re: Bite Inhibition I know it sounds odd, but her behaviour says to me that she thinks that you are the most fun person. Puppies play with each other by biting and engaging in rough and tumble games. Her behaviour tells me that she is very keen for games with you...it's just that puppy games are often not so much fun for humans who do not tend to bite to show affection! Labradors are very mouthy dogs. They have been selectively bred to want to carry things in their mouths. As puppies, this instinct manifests itself in the form of a bitey monster. But she will grow out of it - she really will. What about tug games with toys? Giving her something else to sink her teeth into while still getting to play with you? Do you have a room other than the crate that you can use? There is also nothing wrong with popping her in her crate with a few tasty Kongs to give yourself a break. Hang in there!!
Re: Bite Inhibition Just adding my support here! I too have been in tears this week over my darling 15 week old crocodile. It's difficult to ignore her when you stand up and turn around and she just launches herself at you from behind for more! I've woken up in a positive frame of mind though, last night was bad but today is a new day I need to learn that when she's completely over tired, the only thing I can do is put her out in her room or her crate. She always gets a 'bed' in a jolly voice and a few treats thrown in, so I don't believe she sees going in there as a punishment, she still loves it! We are doing some training sessions with the clicker where she gets a click and treat for me moving my hands near her without her going for me, will build up to stroking her and handling her. We are also trying to address jumping up with the clicker - the two behaviours, biting and jumping up, can be quite an upsetting combination!
Re: Bite Inhibition masiesmomma I have been redirecting as have toy in my pocket or to hand when I no she going to play soon after eating to no joy soon as she has hold its like she turning it into a game of tug. the high pitched does seem to make her worse so now using a low growl and it seem to get her attention . Yes I can imaging until adult teeth starting to come through wee in for few weeks of trouble lol lol thank you though for your input I'm sure it will get easier ...... Rachael Do you really think ?? Yes I got Iain at lunch to get her sock out and wee stuffed it with old cut up pieces of tshirt and its in freezer as I type also when she went nibbling at Iain's trainers this morning he ended up asking her to sit and she did it and she got her toy lol lol so mayb doing a command may work but I no you need to be quick to reward her .. Thank you everyone So far we had visitors this am so she not been to bad but I do expect the mouthy monster to return at some point today
Re: Bite Inhibition zanacal Hi poor you having both to contend with. standing up and walking away doesn't do anything for Ziva lol lol Yes I too was a little frustrated n upset last night thinking Is it me , why is she not understanding I realise she baby and baby's do mouth and it will pass but heck she gives me impression i'm doing it regardless of what you say lol
Re: Bite Inhibition Tess lulled us in to a false sense of security by being an angel for the first month!
Re: Bite Inhibition [quote author=zanacal link=topic=10674.msg158617#msg158617 date=1429801561] Tess lulled us in to a false sense of security by being an angel for the first month! [/quote] Hehe, Willow was very much like that! I look back at all my early posts about how brilliant she was and I'm sure people were thinking "Soon, little one .... soon...." ;D ;D ;D
