Hi, New on this great forum, so hi fellow Lab owners. I have a 10 month old yellow Lab who is already very well trained, shows no sign of aggression, is great with people and other dogs and is very well behaved in the house....but.... On certain occasions when out on leash and having a free run he turns into what can only be described as an "uncontrollable monster"! A typical example is: Sits quietly for me to put leash on Walks calm by side to ball park Plays fetch in field perfectly Then Starts jumping uncontrollably at me, ripping clothes and even drawing blood at this point not even food stops him, I say no and put him back on leash put he then starts going manic on the leash biting it, biting me and growling which to an onlooker must look like extreme aggression, he literally becomes out of his mind and uncontrollably at this point! Help!! Any similar experiences, advice etc would be much, much appreciated Thanks in advance
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Hi and welcome to the forum! Does anything regularly happen after 'Plays fetch in field perfectly' but before 'becomes manic bitey monster'? Any other situations in which this happens? It sounds like extreme excitement, but in a really odd, untriggered kind of way... At what point does he finally calm down? What has to happen for him to calm down. Almost sounds like some kind of fit....not a fit as such but like he is not in control of what he is doing. As you said 'he literally becomes out of his mind'. I wonder if that is sort of what is happening...a neurological thing? Have you spoken to your vet about it?
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Hi, Thankyou for the welcome, Have considered and discussed some possible neurological issues but not too sure as he seems to instantly snap out of it when returning home or if another dog comes to play but anything I do just makes it worse. Only thing that I can think of that triggers it is playing in water as he starts manically running around then starts the jumping/biting maybe also when he had too much of a free run but surely these things shouldn't over stimulate to the point I losing control? It's getting a real problem! Many thanks
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Hi and welcome That does sound odd - is it only when you put him back on the lead? Could it be that he is excited after his game and wants to continue it? Is he trying to involve you in a game? Have you ever unwittingly encouraged this behavior (by playing growly and grabbing games, for instance?). Obviously there is something triggering this behavior, it's finding out what that is tricky!
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Aha - just read the water bit - lots of dogs go a bit cuckoo once they have been in the water, rushing around, butt-tucking madly, etc. Perhaps this is what starts it, and he just doesn't know how to control himself properly?
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Yeah, now that you have described the water trigger I would be inclined to think that is it just massive excitement that he is channeling into a very rough game with you. First thoughts are to introduce a series of 'quiet times' during your play sessions. After every few fetches have him lie down and you sit on the ground with him. Make it nice and calm. Give him treats as he lies quietly with you beside him. You could use a cue for this too - 'calm' or whatever. Then, after a minute, resume your game. Repeat this after every few fetches. The idea here is to teach him to stop and self regulate and to prevent the excitement levels from getting sky high. It might seem like he goes from 'whoa' to 'wacky' in a second but there is probably excitement building that you are not necessarily noticing until it boils over. I guess I would be aiming for preventative strategies like that since, from what you are saying, when he is in that state he has already gone beyond being receptive to cues.
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Hi Karen, Thankyou, Not confined to just the lead but made worse on lead as he jumps and bites it uncontrollably. Have definitely witnessed the butt-tucking after water! But i wonder if there are any techniques to calm him after overstimulating? It is possible that he is trying for a game of tug (of which we do not encourage) but it's the trigger point that starts it which is puzzling because once it starts it gets quite distressing!!
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Did you see Rachael's reply, after mine? She has some very good ideas for calming strategies. I think that she is right - it is important that he learn to calm down BEFORE getting into the very hyper state, since once he is in it by your account it is very difficult to get him to chill again - and of course if he is very rough there is a danger he might hurt someone, or himself.
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Thanks Rachael, That sounds like something try, definately agree that prevent action in the way forward as once he gets in his "zone" it's very hard to bring him back. A head collar seems to prevent it but he really hates it and walks with tail between legs! He does occasionally start it without playing in water and this is when I approach our driveway after a walk, possibly indicating he wants to play further! I wonder if there are any methods to use once he gets in the "zone" as I fear someone could get hurt in time, I have the cuts to back that up :-X
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour When he enters the crazy zone what do you do? What are your hands and feet doing? What are you saying? Where are you looking? Have you tried standing completely and utterly still with your arms folded and looking away (not at your dog)? I appreciate the fact that he is tearing and your clothes and hurting you, so I wouldn't blame you if you've not been game to try the 'be a tree/statue' technique. But, have you tried that?
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Usually try to bring him back to earth by throwing a ball or enticing food, works for a few seconds then he starts again! Have tried holding him down by his collar but doesn't work. Have given the stand still approach a go but he tears and bites basically treating me as a soft toy!
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour I think it is his way of asking for a game of tuggy, or get the ball or give me a treat. My Lab can behave in the same way, but not quite so 'aggressive appearing" way of that behaviour, but he is jumping about and nipping at my pockets, coat "give me the ball". I now put my hands in my pockets, don't look at him and if it continues I ask him to walk to heel, tell him 'no ball' and send him on forward. He is getting the message! A good way is to go out with no ball, no tuggy, no treats and then you cannot be tempted to 'give in' (which I have) so if I don't have what he wants there is no way I can give it He will soon learn there is no point in badgering.
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Pestering to play tug is possible, I have read inducing a game of tug in a controlled environment then commanding him to stop playing, treat then repeat the process can teach a dog to stop playing on command but could this also teach that playing tug is tolerated?
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour So would you say it is always at the END of a run / walk /swim, that he gets into this over-excited state? You say when you are trying to put his lead on, or when you are nearing the driveway after a walk. There was a thread a while ago, I think, about a dog who acted up at the end of his walks. I will see if I can find it. In the meantime, can you recognize any cues from his body language, that he is getting ready to kick off?
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Thankyou Karen, Basically he is the perfect dog for the first 15-20 mins of walking and playing then after around half an hour he starts to play up. Some cues include chattering teeth, excessive running around and when on lead excessively looking up at me with upper lip curled and a straight stare! I could possibly take him on smaller short walks but we are going on holiday soon and things could get nasty when on beach!
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Well, the good news is that you can recognize when he is about to kick off. I am sure that a few 1-to-1 sessions with a good trainer or behaviorist would sort this out, but I can understand you don't want to be taking him on holiday, with all the excitements of the beach, while he is likely to start behaving like that! There are lots of very experienced people on this forum, who can probably give you much better advice than I can, though I feel the key is to pre-empt the behaviour.
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour Pre-emting the behaviour is definitely something to work on but will also look at a deterrent to stop the madness when it happens maybe something like an olbas oil spray, something to bring him back to earth! what are the most popular tips to discourage any jumping up in general.
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour I personally wouldn't try a spray (if you mean spraying something at him) as it is likely to rev him up more. I would work on the 'pause and be calm' approach I described. Also, as soon as you notice those signs of over excitement that you mentioned, immediately stop the game and either initiate another round of calm lying down or, if he's beyond listening, stand still with your arms folded like a statue. He may at first try really, really hard to get you to respond but you should refuse to move until he backs off. The millisecond that he backs off give him quiet praise and treats. He only gets attention when in a relatively calm state. Definitely don't throw the toy again (that's a reward for over-excitement).
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour I agree - don't do ANYTHING that is a reward for him. In his mind, he growls and bites, you throw a ball, so next time he growls and bites louder and harder, to get the same result from you... The only thing that is really going to work, is ignoring him completely when he is hyper. At first, his behaviour may briefly get even worse - but don't give in or despair, he will realize that he is not achieving anything. Don't forget to praise him and throw his ball for him when he is being calm and good.
Re: Bizarre ultra excitable behaviour I have an ultra-excitable too. Hebe's trigger is the car keys, as soon as I start getting ready to go out in the car (how she can tell the difference between going to work and going in the car I have no idea but she knows) she starts "dancing". As soon as she starts, I stop, freeze and don't move until she sits, I take a pace and if she moves I step back, if she stays sitting, or keeps calm, I keep going. Because I know what triggers her I've been able to work with her at length, picking up keys, putting them down, carrying them with me etc., in the early days the worst was two hours from kitchen to car, only 30-40 paces. The really daft thing is that as soon as she's in the car she's as good as gold, settling down and not making murmur and she only gets out for an exciting walk one in twenty or thirty trips so why going out in the car is so 'wonderful' is a mystery. I can only assume she enjoys watching the world rush by. So, from our experience. Patience, calm, no rewards for the unwanted behaviour -stock still and ignoring, if it's safe to do so, works best for us, positives for the good and lots and lots and lots of repetition. It does work but there are no quick fixes. Kerryn
