So my brother is visiting me....the one Simba was hump-crazy over pre-neuter. Unfortunately the pup wasn't on his best behaviour, I'll grant you. No humping (thank the good Lord), but very excited, jumping up, nipping....sigh. Don't know what it is about my bro that prompts this! Anyhow I'm telling him to ignore, turn away, but he keeps trying to push Simba away which of course makes dog more excited, etc. I get I clicker out and start to click and treat the times when Simba stays "down".... Works like a charm... Discussing this later, bro says, "you need Caesar Milan, he'd get him straightened out just like that!" Fume.
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! I suspect that Cesar Milan would just get bitten! Cesar Milan's return to the 'age of dominance' must really irk all the people who have been promoting positive motivational methods all these years.
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Discouraging night tonight. Simba on the prowl, jumping and nipping (and it hurts!!), obsessed with the Venetian curtains, stealing shoes, CDs, and anything else, bugging everyone...did a bunch of click and treat, playing with new kong toy, sit and lie down, sit and lie down, collar desensitization etc in the midst of all that in attempts to get him thinking about something other than destruction, a million pulls on the leash to get him away from stuff.... Ack it feels like one of those 10 steps backwards night. Hubby wonders if maybe it's yet addition of someone else into the house (my brother staying here for a couple of nights) is just upsetting the balance of the family and is riling him up. I dunno. It's just discouraging.... And all the comments about "dog whisperer this" and "dog whisperer that" from my bro.... Somebody is Not Happy :-[
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! It might be someone else in the house - Charlie gets and stays excited when we have visitors too, I thought it was all the little changes in routine that comes with visitors and that the house was just generally more lively, so it might be that with Simba. On the other hand, perhaps you've let him walk through a door ahead of you, or given him his food before you eat... so you'll have to start all over establishing your alpha status....
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Lisa he's your brother and you love him but I'm detecting that strange phenomena we encounter when outside in the world ,the instinctive drive of the member of the public to give us 'helpful'' advice!its not exclusive to strangers it seems! My friend was round the other day,she has 3 dogs ,originally stray feral desert puppies.She is devoted to them and has done an amazing job.She was sitting watching the tea towel stealing and me clicking and treating drop it.....eventually she says.....a crack on the nose would solve that in 1!It has probably been a vital training technique at times in her house,but I'm hoping we don't have to ever resort to it I saw high five to the clicker!it worked there for you with the jumping ,good boy Simba! Your Husband could probably be right you know,new smells,new voice,different items to steal......it's all exciting and getting him fired up.....No advice for you I'm sorry,just sympathy for how you are feeling,I feel sad for you when you sound down because I know how hard and SUCCESSFULLY you are working.....and you will get there x
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Id like to stick a prong collar on Cesar Millan and take him for a walk...bet he would walk to heel very well ;D
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Thanks everyone, appreciate it. It's just so discouraging... Honestly it was 2 hours or constant supervision/distraction/clicking/ etc etc. the only thing that kept me from a complete melt down was that my eldest son stepped in and took over some of the dog management.... This was all happening as we were in the kitchen playing Scrabble. Hubby was downstairs watching TV and also helped by a (non violent) game of tug with his new toy.... At one point my son was getting fed up with the dog constantly taking things and then us giving him a treat when he gave it up, saying "I'm sick of rewarding him for taking my shoes!" Is that a danger? Are we reinforcing a bad behaviour? Had to cringe at the "smack on the nose".... Josh also got frustrated at the constant grabbing at his hands and tried to smack Simba.... I will have to talk about that with him but honestly I didn't blame him at that point-I wanted to smack him myself!!!!!!! I would have put Simba outside but it was pouring rain....didn't help. Simba is SO instinctive at the using his teeth on people's hands .... What do you guys think - he's now 10 months old. This behaviour obviously should have been dealt with much earlier, but it was allowed to become this bad habit. Do you think I'm really going to be able to train him out of it??? That being said - when I have the clicker and he knows there's a treat in the offing, he is good, in the limited training I've had the chance to do. But it obviously hasn't translated yet to "real life" situations. Sorry, this is a long post. Appreciate your patience with me....
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! I know exactly what you mean...I saw my friends point ,I know there is a danger of a lure becoming a bribe....and Im in danger of this I fear......I must read on this,Im not following a clicker training program,our clicker training started with Pippa's puppy book and I can't remember what she says about the danger of lures leading to bribes....Lacking experience once again so interested to see any replies that come through,I will benefit from the points you have raised....has Simba redeemed himself today?
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Well it's only 9AM here, my bro just got up. Simba tried to get up on him as Miles is sitting in the chair (saw suspiciously pre-hump positioning) but I said "no, get down" and he stopped and I gave him a treat. So....it could be a looonngg day.... The good thing is it is sunny out today. I can put Simba outside when he gets obnoxious. As I'm typing I've had to use the leash to pull Simba away from my bro a few times. He finally gave up and laid down at my feet. He is definitely thinking about humping.... :'(
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Lisa just get through the day ,can you take him on a good walk,or maybe a couple of shorter ones if the weather is good?...does that peg him out? He IS responding to you....I can imagine its really tiring and draining though. :-\ We had Dexter for 2 weeks and then a run of 7 weeks of visitors,it was pretty tough when I look back and Dexter is quite a chilled boy.Having people in the house does make a difference and is a challenge. survive the best you can this weekend.you are going to get everything in place but it's not going to be until you get back from your hols now,you have done a brilliant effort with Simba,I couldn't have coped how you have x
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Two walks definitely in the plan today...the second one after dinner a looonngg walk and 5 minute rule be damned!!!! I have to cope somehow!! We'll go on the trails (no concrete lots of sniffing) and hopefully that will wear him out and not damage joints.... :-\ honestly I have to cope somehow....
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! I would also say '5 minute rule be blowed" Lisa. He needs to work off some of his energy in some way that isn't so irritating to you!! Keep the faith - you are doing so well with him. You will win in the end.
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Hi Lisa. Been there and I have the T-shirt! My son in law loves Lady, but when she was a puppy he really used to overdo the play with her then paid big time for it in that every time he came to the house she was all over him jumping up etc. We gradually got her better with other visitors but he remained the problem one. Anyway at 3 going on 4 in September she'snow fine with visitors ....... except HIM! You are definitely doing well so don't give in please, and keep Cesar away please. ;D
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Totally agree , unfortunately some people are just wind up merchants where our dogs are concerned and then we get cross with the dog, been there, done that myself with a neighbour who would insist on calling out to Sam when I was lead training him . Get him out there, there are those times that rules are there for bending
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! I was just going to ask you how much physical exercise does Simba get? When Murffi first came to me his list of behaviour issues was as long as my arm. My answer to his problems was 50% exercise and 50% mental stimulation which gave me a 100% tired dog, definitely no longer in the mood for mischief.
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! I also forgot to say earlier,mention to your son that he's not rewarding the shoe stealing....he's rewarding the shoe return.......although it might not feel like that at times! good luck x
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Yes, Heidrun I do believe he needs more exercise...I can't take him off lead yet as he has NO recall to speak of....he does have the run of the yard, and I take him for two walks a day, but trying to limit length in order to address the joint issue. I would love to be able to play fetch or retrieve or something like that in the yard to help blow off energy but he hasn't learned those games yet and I haven't had time to teach him with all the OTHER things that need to be addressed. Plus... I actually do have other things to do in my life except DOG, although it sure doesn't feel like it some days. So....when I get back the Total Recall program is going into effect, and I'm going to teach him how to play fetch! Just have to survive somehow between now and then.
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Sounds like you are doing great to me - my pup is so young, and I think I found good advice before I messed up too much (although obviously have messed up a bit through not having a clue...). Do you have access to somewhere safe you could let him blow off some energy even though he has no recall? I ask not because of experience with Charlie but from experience 30 years ago... With Jups (the lab I had with a kid) he was rubbish at recall for ages, we'd take him on the North York Moors and he would shoot off.. but with miles and miles of moorland in every direction, all he could do was come back... eventually. That was the start of the recall for us. Plus, one tired young dog when we got home. Bliss. I'd dump the 5 min rule - I so have. I can't cope with a pup bouncing off the walls all day. Although I take it steady, sometimes I just sit down and make myself comfy, and let him sniff himself tired... I don't think that counts as "hard exercise"....!
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Sorry, can't resist a pic - this was Charlie "boinging" this morning. Me sat down doing nothing, him doing his thing boinging about in long grass, I don't really don't count this kind of thing towards his 5 min a month hard exercise. Oh, maybe I should though...argghhh...it's SO difficult! puppy in the grass by JulieTandCharlie, on Flickr
Re: Caesar Milan, my eye!!!! Yes, it's a bit tricky here.... There's lots of places I could take him off leash but they would all involve some trees and scents of deer, rabbits, porcupines, coyotes, moose, bear or even cougars. So....he could find a scent and be off after it and disappear into the trees....and possibly come haring back with something on his tail to boot (ie bear or cougar! Not extremely likely but they are around so you do have to think about it!). I would LOVE a beautiful patch of empty moorland hills to let him romp around on! Not to mention just the THOUGHT of the North York Moors makes me all dreamy-eyed.... Anyhow.....I have purchased one of those 30 ft leads....there are some farmers' fields nearby that we could go to, and I have been thinking about putting that on him and giving him some freedom....but if he gets some speed up it still would be hard to stop him!! He has gotten out if our yard a couple times until we made the gate "doggy proof" (hopefully!) and the good thing is he does know where we live and can find his way back. But obviously I would prefer not to have to test that theory often! Your pup is so cute!! If his eyes were golden he and Simba could be twins...which is weird seeing that my boy is half Newfie. I sure don't see much other than Lab in him, though, but then again my eye isn't very experienced!
