Clicker timing troubles

Discussion in 'Clicker Training' started by ClareJ, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. ClareJ

    ClareJ Registered Users

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    On the whole, clicker training is working well... but sometimes she does something and I'm left wondering how to react. Today for example she threw herself 'Down' with gusto, I clicked... and in that split second before the treat, she leapt back up again. She doesn't always do this, and we've been working on repeat C&T for staying down, but what do I do in this situation? As she's had the C, she's been getting the &T, because if I withhold it, then I'll devalue the click? But at the same time, I don't want her to develop a behaviour of following a command and then instantly returning to what she considers to be a 'ready' position...

    I've been working on the speed of treat delivery, and a proper treat pouch has definitely helped me with this - I don't think I'm too slow, but she obviously does! ???
    All suggestions very gratefully received,
    Clare
     
  2. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    It depends on what you want and what you are clicking for - if the click is the end of the exercise (eg she is released on the click and then you treat and repeat) then she did the right thing - she was free to stop doing whatever on the click. If what you wanted though was a 3 second down, then you should click for that, not the down right away.

    I use a sort of continuous clicking to maintain a position over time, but not everyone does this. There is a thread somewhere where Pippa explained and directed us to some vids. I'll see whether I can dig it out.
     
  3. ClareJ

    ClareJ Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Thanks, Julie. I've seen the continuous clicking technique (think I was watching kikopup???) but am beginning to confuse myself. Sometimes I look at the viewing figures going up on youtube and wince at how many of them I am responsible for...
     
  4. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Still looking for the thread...you need someone more experienced than I am, really, hopefully someone will be along soon.

    I was thinking about what I do. I think Charlie has learned that if he stays where he is on a click, another one will be along soon. If I don't want this, I throw the treat to get him to move. If I don't throw the treat, he tends to stay where he is. But this isn't the only way to do it and at one point I thought it was a bit unusual.
     
  5. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Hi Clare

    I agree with Julie. If I was wanting to train duration on the down as in I say down so don't get up until released I would start withholding the C&T .

    Once I've taught the initial move, sit, down etc, I would then say down wait few seconds c&t.

    However when I trained the sit stay before I started working on duration of sit etc I taught the release cue so what you are then actually teaching is waiting for the release before they get a C&T and nothing should make them move but the release word. That way you can return C&T for maintaining the position. That's how I train like Julie continuous clicking (hope thats what you ment Julie). I don't use the click as a release cue.

    I don't know if that makes sense. If you haven't already watch the kikopup sit stay video the shorter version it's about 7 mins . I found that really helpful and obviously can use it for down.

    I know what you mean about confusing yourself as there seems to be at least two ways to C&T.

    Can I ask a question? Does it matter if I say good dog when I C&T ? I find it difficult not too. ::)
     
  6. ClareJ

    ClareJ Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Thanks, Jen - that's really useful and has helped to de-confuse me!

    I know what you mean about the verbal praise - she tends to get that alongside the treat! Not every time though - heaps of praise and tummy tickles are the signal that the training session is over - but she does get a lot of verbal 'good girl' throughout.
    Clare
     
  7. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Hi Clare

    I wrote my post yesterday in a bit of a rush and I'm not sure it makes sense even though you very kindly said it helped so I'm going to have another go. ::)

    The C&T always means 'that's right, well done, good dog' but from what I've read and videos I've watched I think it can be used to train in two ways. Either the C&T means well done and release or well done and reinforcing the command telling the dog that it is still doing the right thing.

    If I was training the down using the first method I would gradually increase the gap between the dog lying down and the C&T so the dog learns to earn the C&T it has to stay in the down position.

    I use the second method. I C&T to reinforce what the dog is doing telling him well done your still doing the right thing. I think you need to teach a release cue though to do it this way although I'm not sure.

    I mainly train this method because the first thing I taught my dogs with the clicker was the sit stay. I followed the kikopup video on YouTube and that's the method she uses. However I do think it works better for my two. They have what I like to call distraction syndrome.
    You know ' oooo look pretty butterfly I'll just see where it's going' . If I'm practising sit stay I will tell them to sit then I can move about different distances, for different lengths of time and create distractions but return at different times to C&T reinforcing well done your still sitting. If we practise walking to heel I give the command the dog assumes the position C&T then as we are walking I will C&T. They don't know when I'm going to C&T so they concentrate on me a lot better and on what they are doing. They want to hear that magic click.

    I'll be honest I don't know if I'm doing it right, i doubt myself on a regular basis but so far it's worked. ::)

    I hope that makes more sense ???

    Jen :D
     
  8. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Yes, you are right, Jen, you need a release cue to use the second method :)

    If you've found that your method is working then that means that it's working and I'd keep doing it :)
     
  9. Jen

    Jen Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    Thanks Rachael like I said I do wonder if I've got it right so its good to know you think I have if it's working.

    I wish I'd thought to clicker train sooner they've responded really well to it. So far anyway. ;)
     
  10. ClareJ

    ClareJ Registered Users

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    Re: Clicker timing troubles

    [quote author=Jen link=topic=3361.msg36806#msg36806 date=1385068087]


    I wish I'd thought to clicker train sooner they've responded really well to it. So far anyway. ;)
    [/quote]

    I know what you mean, Jen - Brew gets excited at the mere sight of the clicker! She really enjoys those sessions.

    Thanks to you and Rachael for your input on this.
    Clare
     

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