Hoping to get other peoples ideas about feeding regime for Lottie, our overweight 10 year old spayed lab. See has had 3 bouts of colitis since April this year, the last one started last week. Had to take her to the vet as an emergency yesterday as she was so lethargic and having difficulty getting up. The vet was really good. I explained that this time she was passing wind (not normally a windy dog) and it smelt like patients I have looked after who suffered with C-diff or Nora Virus. Only pooed once in 24 hrs, like a Mr Whippy, no blood. Luckily she wasn't running a temp and abdomen not too sensitive. The vet gave her an antibiotic injection and a course to take home, plus probiotics. Kept a check on her overnight but very worried as still having difficulty getting up. Woke up this morning to hear the patter of feet on the laminate flooring and much happier dog. She's still very sleepy today but much brighter, even giving her squeaky a going over. That's her history but when it comes to feeding I'm in a dilemma and would be interested to hear other peoples experiences. Since the 2nd bout of colitis shes been having Virbac Digestive diet but has put weight on, she's not keen on it but is a lab and will eat anything eventually. The veterinary nurse suggested this, but Virbac products are splashed around the surgery along with Arden Grange. Reading all the literature I am so confused, but it is apparent that each dog is individual and I'm going to have to find what is best for Lottie by trial and error. I have spent a fortune on expensive kibble. I want her to have as natural product as possible with minimal additives. But it is also a case of should I feed kibble or wet food. Then there is the 'raw meat' camp. The more I read the more confused I become. I read that during their training vets have minimal input about dog nutrition and then it can be provided by dog food manufacturers. Would be interested to know if that is true. Also read somewhere that you shouldn't give dogs broccoli (How do you spell that!) then found it as an ingredient in a well known kibble. The vet I saw yesterday suggested she wasn't keen on the Virbac Digestive kibble - it is very greasy - she said that was to make it more palatable. She said that she heard good reports about Lilys Kitchen products. I have spoken to them and hope to start Lottie on their Lamb Pea and Parsley kibble (sounds more like my diet). Like the idea of lamb, which Lottie has had before, as being brought up on a farm I appreciate that it is one of the more natural meat farmers produce. Anyway would be interested in owners views on coping with overweight labs with sensitive tums. Thanks
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi and welcome I haven't had any experience of an overweight dog, but lots of experience with sensitive tummies. We went through months of diarrhoea, blood in stools and eventually just passing blood. Weight loss and being lethargic went alongside this. My vet recommended Royal Canin Gastro for sensitive tummies when we got her, but after a few months it got worse. Eventually we found out she was wheat intollerant so I started looking at food. I was recommended Bob and Lush by one of the forum members and since changing to this, all problems have gone away. It is kibble, but not got rubbish in it. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Thanks for that, I daren't tell you how much she weighs. My mum lives with us and sneaks Lottie treats, its very hard to keep the dog healthy and not fall out with my mum. I do think my mum now realises how important it is not to give Lottie too many titbits and we do reduce her kibble to accommodate the treats. I've never had an overweight dog before, there again have never had a pedigree lab before. We made a fat pup by feeding her the suggested amount of Arden Grange food and it progressed from there. I would do things totally different if we had another dog, but we now have to address the problems we have made for the sake of Lottie's health. We'll try the Lily's Kitchen product and see how we go. Thanks again
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Welcome to the forum. I don't have much experience with dogs with colitis but Lily's kitchen is meant to be a pretty good food so it's good you're starting there. I would advise to get the low fat or light diet (of any food you try) as this will still provide the adequate amount of nutrients your dogs needs but with the reduced calories! Naya mentioned about about royal canin gastro intestinal food and I just thought I'd add that they actually do a low fat version if you wanted to try a more prescription diet. The key to weight loss (animal or human) is to lower the calorie intake and up the exercise. If your dog is very overweight this will need to be done slowly as the weight on her will make it harder for her to move around - so short walks several times a day. I would also be trying to think up inventive ways to get her moving around more at home - perhaps an activity ball with her kibble in that she can chase around the house for her meals?
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi, I have never had problems with an overweight dog, I have fed arden grange kibble, it wasnt to bad, but I am a convert to raw feeding. If you feed kibble, its a dry food, and therefore processed, so not paticularly natural. Also you are only feeding one type of protein. Raw feeding,raw meaty bones, are better for dogs teeth, and anal glands, other health claims, havent really been researched.I feed chicken backs, pigs kidney , tinned sardines, diced rabbit, minced tripe, and raw eggs. I use a fair amount of treats, apple and carrot, and fish for dogs sea biscuits. Otis is 23kg at fourteen months of age. He is very healthy, and I know Im giving him nourishing food. To feed raw, you need freezer space, and to be careful with hygeine as its all raw meat. Hope this helps, Maggie x
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi thanks to both of you. I will try to give a few short walks, sometimes she just downs tools at the end of the drive and that's it. Its difficult to understand if its just laziness or arthritis, but she has always loved her walks. She popped her cruciate ligament a year or two ago, but wasn't operated on because of her anaesthetic risk - she's coped really well with that. That's partly why we have to watch her exercising. There are plenty more health issue but they can wait for another time! I don't think raw meat is an option at the moment but it would be something I would consider if we had a new dog. Would love to hear from a vet about their training in dog nutrition. Many thanks
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Ok so she's arthritic and has done her cruciate ligament, is she on any pain medication? If not you might want to chat to your vet about getting her some as this might help her become a bit more mobile - if she's in pain she definitely isn't going to want to go anywhere. Also you might find that as her weight decreases so will her pain as there will be less stress on the painful joints. You also might be able to decrease pain meds too.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi, as i said she has lots of problems. She has been on carprieve but her kidney function was affected so she came off it. Granted it did help her and we've had to weigh up the pros and cons of continuing it. The vets will not consider it at the moment because of her colitis. I think it is slowly, slowly with Lottie now. Having read one of the posts have just ordered meds for arthritis, sorry can't remember name, but she has been on glucosamine for a while, this is just a higher dose. The vet said she could have a course of injections, again can't remember the name, to help promote joint fluids which we may consider. Just need to get her over the colitis. Thanks
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis I've had quite a lot of experience with colitis unfortunately. My old lab had it for the best part of 15 years. It got more frequent as he got older and became stress related. I changed his diet to royal canin sensitivity control and I gave him bio premium, a probiotic supplement, daily when he was about 11. I was also very strict about treats no more human food. This made a massive difference and we got through the last 4 years of his life with only one upset stomach. He'd been getting one every 6 weeks or so. The royal canin sensitivity control has changed from fish protein to duck. However I also gave him fish4dogs which worked just as well . When he got vey old he found it harder to eat dry food so I gave him Nature Diet cod and potato wet food . Again he was fine on that. You may have noticed the theme was fish. A single protein is important for helping to control colitis and fish is usually one that dogs don't have a sensitivity to. Not sure if that's any help you probably already know all that. Hope she improves very soon.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hello, thanks for the information. Lottie had quite a good day yesterday and was interested in her toys and had a couple of short walks and a play. However, she didn't have a poo. She's a bit sad this morning and has been skirting the lawn edge, I think looking for grass. I'm wondering if she's going to have an explosion or is constipated. She's still got some antibiotics left and has just finished the probiotic which has kaolin in it. Can they get constipated after diarrhoea episodes? I was going to give her some live yoghurt but read about dogs being lactose intolerant. I may ask the vet about a regular probiotic, luckily she's on a health plan and so it doesn't cost anything. If not I'll buy it - have read other peoples reports of how it helps. I have ordered the lamb based kibble from Lily's Kitchen with a fish skin treat, which is mixing the meat proteins but she won't have them at the same time. I agree about dogs and fish Lottie loves the spring water from a salmon or tuna tin and at the moment she is on rice and a tiny bit of tuna, so I might change to a fish based kibble. I would be interested to know (basically!) how your dogs poo changed as he recovered from the colitis bout whether it was gradual or went straight back to normal. Its disappointing to see her sad today, hope its just a blip. Thanks
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hello there Where are you based? I wonder if you are close to a doggie hydrotherapy centre? I suggest this because if your girl has arthritic pain, yet needs to up exercise to reduce weight, water based therapies that reduce weight bearing on joints can be a great help. The warm water of hydrotherapy can ease pain and stiffness, and a qualifies therapist should be able to help you work out a programme that is best for your girl. If you do this, do check out the qualifications of the people running the place though - it would be a good idea to get a referral from your vet - as if your girl has an unrepaired cruciate, only some forms of water based exercise may be suitable (the leg will be more stable in say a treadmill rather than deeper water). Laser therapy, accupuncture, heat treatments and massage can also all help if you need to ease her discomfort while staying off drugs that might upset her tummy. Again, going to properly qualified people who objectively measure the results they achieve, and are recommended by your vet is key. I hope you find a programme that will help your girl.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi there, as soon as anyone mentions swimming for Lottie I cringe! She panics when she gets out of her depth in water though loves to paddle and duck her chin to make it look as if she is swimming. She's got enough fat to keep her afloat!. I haven't met many labs that can't swim. The idea of a water treadmill might be better. I'll ask the vet about local dog therapists, also I know someone who practices reiki (is that spelt right?) and could have a word with them to see if it would benefit Lottie. PS she's been for a short walk, Had a poo not fully formed but hard to get a decent description from my partner. Thanks
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis I had Reiki for me and I think it is a con!!! My Lab who broke his elbow went into a water treadmill and I think that would be beneficial and so would just swimming in the hydrotherapy pool.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis [quote author=lottieedward link=topic=6910.msg93980#msg93980 date=1404897054] The idea of a water treadmill might be better. I'll ask the vet about local dog therapists, also I know someone who practices reiki (is that spelt right?) and could have a word with them to see if it would benefit Lottie. [/quote] If your girl has an unrepaired cruciate rupture, with associated arthritis, is significantly over weight, and there are limits on drug based pain relief, it's possible (I'd say extremely probable) that she is in a significant amount of pain and discomfort at a time when you are trying to increase her exercise. Personally, I'd give the Reiki a miss, , and get a referral from your vet to people that can help you with a more mainstream programme. It does depend on what's available in your area, but there are things that are well worth trying. When I mentioned acupuncture, I should have also said that there is some evidence it is effective at treating some kinds of stiffness and pain in humans and I've talked to a practitioner (a qualified vet studying different forms of pain relief) who believes there is some role for it in treating similar pain in dogs - I didn't mean to suggest I thought there is any benefit in the traditional beliefs of Qi, life force and so on.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi there, Welcome to the Forum,well done to you addressing the weight problem of your dog. I have a dog with a sensitive tummy ,although I cautiously add to that he seems be very stable these days. After a few kibble changes we settled on the RC Gastro intestinal and it has suited Dexter...Dexter has NO human food whatsoever....additional to his kibble he has steamed ,roast chicken and fish for dogs sea biscuits.it sounds a bit miserable to be honest doesn't it?but this works for us on keeping his weight right and his stools firm x
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi lottie Ok this post might make me sound a bit weird. I'm not it's just after 15 years of doggy dodgy tummies I am a bit of an expert on stool consistency. : I even made my own firmness scale which I still use with my two now. This made it easier to get as accurate a description as possible when my OH walked the dog. He wasnt overly impressed. I told you you'd think I was weird. Anyway my old lab never had what you could describe as firm stools before I altered his diet. He was on eukanuba for a long time. Even if his stomach was ok it would be a formed shape but soft. He could easily go two times on an hour walk the second time being even softer. When he had a bout of colitis it would be thick lumpy diorrhea with jelly like mucus and more often than not blood. From what I remember his stools firmed up very quickly after I'd changed his diet especially when I started using the probiotics aswell. In fact in his last four years his bowel movements were the best they've ever been. : I used protexin bio premium with Murphy which were granules then. It has however changed to a powder and now contains kaolin. I emailed protexin to check it was still ok to give as a daily supplement despite the kaolin and was told it was. However my two labs now weren't keen on powder on their food and I wasn't too sure about giving kaolin every day so I now use Lintbells yumpro bioactive which are tablets. Was the probiotic you were giving a paste which included kaolin to help stop diarrhea for example pro kolin ? That shouldn't be given unless the dog as diarrhea or could bung up. :. You probably know that but thought I'd mention it so you know the supplements I'm talking about are different. I will now apologise profusely to anybody reading this who is eating and for sounding obsessed about dog poo : Good luck. I hope her tummy is sorted soon. Its horrible when they have a bad tummy.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi, thanks for the comments. I only thought of Reiki as a friend of a friend is a practitioner, I personally know little about it. I shall have to have a different approach to the vets. They are a very good team, there seems to be a lot of young vets and Lottie doesn't see the same one each time, perhaps I should latch on to one who knows her and discuss the problems she has in a more holistic way. Its a bit like going to the Doctors and only being able to discuss one ailment. She is in a 12 month payment plan and I get all consultations, meds and investigations free, though she does have exclusions. Always feel I need to rush as the waiting room is full. I live in Staffordshire so if anyone knows of services that would suit Lottie please let me know, bearing in mind the swimming phobia. Will do more research into acupunture. I think I am set on the plan for her diet now but that may change if it doesn't agree with her. Plus probiotics and supplements for joints. You've all given me food for thought and it helps to know that there is decent advice out there. I intend to take her to the vets for weighing but will need to known what is a reasonable weekly weight loss for her, which the vet should tell me. Just need some advice on how to stop a 92 year old feeding her titbits! Ta She seems a lot happier this afternoon. She's never alone
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Best of luck with it. Yes, I very much understand about finding a vet who seems to really consider your dog properly, it can be a challenge. Let us know how you get on. If you wanted to start and keep a "Lottie weight loss" thread going to track progress, you'll find lots of constructive, friendly and genuine support on the forum.
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Hi Jen, just read your post. I'm an x nurse and we used the Bristol stool chart on the wards, which would be very useful with Lottie but don't think the other half would be too impressed, not too interested in bodily functions. I've looked at the tube of paste again and the vet had put their direction label over the top so I hadn't noticed that it is a probiotic only, no kaolin, which is good and makes me feel a bit better, especially as she was pooing only once a day. I can talk about poo and pee all day but don't mention sputum it makes me heave - just like slobbery dogs - sorry to their owners! Have just realised you can scroll down and see previous posts, Derr!!!! Will look at the lintbells probiotic. Thanks for the advice
Re: Diet for over weight lab with colitis Re the 92 year old, could you have a little pot with measured out kibble, which you could have beside her for giving titbits?
