I grew up in rural North Yorkshire (and other places), with dogs - in particular a working line black lab who was a nightmarish absconder (we loved him though) who spent much more of his life on a lead than my current show line lab does in London. Charlie seems to get on just fine in London - he also does fine in the country too though. I heard some views recently about whether an urban environment is suitable for all dogs, in particular working line dogs, and I wondered whether people would share their experiences, and what they think about different types of dog living in a city? It depends what city you are in, or even what part of a city, but Charlie is not short of space to be off lead in London. We use the Commons and the Royal parks so have thousands of acres to play in (these are not manicured parks with lead rules - we could spend our walking life off lead in deer parks if we wanted). There are very, very, busy roads around all of the parks though, so recall training has always been my no. 1 priority. We share this space with other people, a lot of other people. Most parks have cycle and skate tracks, golf courses, and are busy in nice weather with families sitting on the grass. There are lots of people running, and often races. You can go at quieter times though, and I often do. And a lot of other dogs. Sometimes it seems like an unbelievable number of other dogs. All shapes and sizes and different temperaments. We also share the space with a lot of other animals - water birds, rabbits, foxes, deer - that must not be chased, ever. Outside the parks, well, London is a busy, noisy place. I choose to take Charlie with me if I can when I'm out and about - he happily travels on the tube, trains and buses if I need him to (I do run the risk of him slobbering on people to say hello, but we mainly manage fine). So I guess you need a dog that is going to: Be fine with the crashing and banging of a busy city Be reliably friendly with ever human s/he meets - and there are a lot of people to meet Thrive on meeting loads of strange dogs without getting into trouble with them Have a great recall, and not chase - kids, joggers, and the animals in the parks - or raid picnics (I spend a huge amount of my time on this one : ) When I look at the list above, I think these things don't necessarily rule out working line dogs - or does anyone think these things would tend to reduce the probability a working line dog would do well in a city? And do you think it might be different for different breeds? Eg labs, spaniels, HPRs? I suppose we have to add the absence of work - there are no shoots in central London! Although plenty of other activities - flyball, agility, obedience etc that might keep a dog that needs lots of mental stimulation happy enough. Anyway, I suppose loads of working line dogs live in the country but don't actually work?
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city I really believe it is down to the owner, no matter what breed the dog is. For example, my auntie has a West Highland White terrier (doesn't need a massive amount of walking). She lives 2 mins away from Blaise Castle (huge estate with paths, woods, park, stream etc etc). Unfortunately my auntie is on oxygen 100% of the time so can't walk far. She does go out in her electric wheelchair, but the dog sits on her lap rather than walks. To me, I could never do that. I know she loves her dog, but it is very unfit and no social skills (she rarely takes the dog into populated areas) I live a 10 min walk from the local woods, but apart from that, I have to drive to off-lead areas. I take Harley to local shopping areas and she does really well. I also doing a lot of walking and training with Harley. Harley is a working line lab. The main town is 30 mins in the car, but I rarely go there, but I think Harley would be fine if we did. I see a lot of lurchers where I live, and they all seem to be content. My friend has a Terrier from working lines (can't remember which terrier though!). She lives in the countryside and says she could never live in a built up area as Dyllis would go mad with all the noise, having to be on lead more and again, lack of social skills. But, I have seen lots of terriers when I'm on my walks locally who appear to do well. Does this make sense?
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city I think if a dog has the opportunity to have off lead exercise and if working bred is given retrieves, he/she doesn't know that they are missing shooting. Going on buses, trains provides interest and learning to deal with noise and to become a confident dog. So a city dog with access to parks could be luckier than a country bred dog who is not let off the lead!
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city To be honest I'm not sure that it matters whether a dog is working line or show line or what breed. I think it is more the temperament. I have had three working line labs. Scott and Scout now and my old lab Murphy. Murphy was much more laid back than Scott and Scout. I think had he grown up in a city he would've been happy as long as he could retrieve a ball somewhere. He loved people and didn't have a problem with other dogs. He was fine walking around towns. We used to take him up to Scotland with us. I remember my dad waiting outside the chandlers in Oban with Murphy. Everyone kept stopping to stroke him. Even the shop assistants went out to see him. He was a bonnie dog. My dad got a bit fed up but murph loved it. Now put Scott and Scout in that situation and chaos would rein. Ok they had a very unfortunate experience when young but I think that just exacerbated the problem. I think they are genetically, or whatever may be the cause, nervy. Had they been in a city from pups then some of the issues they have would possibly not have arose but I'm not sure it would ever have really suited their nervous temperament. Having said all that I also believe dogs are adaptable.
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city I have two working line labs living in Edinburgh. I moved house within the city before I got them to literally two minutes from Arthurs Seat, which is a fantastic, heather covered, variously hilly, beautiful boggy, valley and gully, pheasant and rabbit filled labrador heaven. We walk through exciting and physically and mentally challenging terrain for a couple of hours every morning and we probably see about three other dogs... feels like we are in the depths of the country...a twenty five minute walk and we are on a great beach....I give my two plenty of gun doggy stuff to do. That side of their city life they are both very happy with. They vary on the other ' city ' stuff. Brods isnt fazed by anything, loves pubs, loved hustle and bustle. Cuilli less so. They actually had different experiences as young puppies, I stayed with my sister and her family in the countryside for the first five weeks of cuilli's life.I wonder whether this early socialisation to a rural lifestyle had made her less fond of the city bustle, I only stayed with sister for just over a week with Brodick, by 11.5 weeks old he was in the city and his early socialisation was much more city orientated. They have very different natures though, cuilli is much more sensitive than brods, so not sure how much that early experience has impacted. Both are pretty confident out and about in the city however, though I would say brods embraces it while Cuilli just gets on with it, if you know what I mean. I purposefully keep them away from the super dog populated areas of the City. I think Cuilli would be happier in a more rural environment and hope to be out of the city by next summer. Brods would be fine anywhere....like a lot of things we talk about on here, think a lot of it depends on the individusl dog...
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city We are rural and I only ever take Hattie and Charlie into town for Vet visits. We have walked Hattie & Charlie in a town park without any problems with lots of dogs, but they are rural dogs at heart but they encounter lots in the countryside and woods e.g. joggers, cyclists, walkers, D of E students, tractors, farmers, sheep, deer, horses, rabbits, pheasants, pigs, dogs, cats etc. etc. and are not phased by any of it. I don't really see that it matters where you take your dogs or whether you live in urban or rural areas as long as they get plenty of exercise and encounter lots of different experiences. I have never had the need to take them on a bus or train but Hattie enjoyed very much being a school gate dog and loved every minute of it being made a massive fuss by all the children who still fuss over her and everyone knows her. I think it depends on your dog and your lifestyle. So long as my dogs are happy and they definitely are that's all that matters to me x
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city There are many breeds (or strains of breeds) I would not get (city or country) unless I was going to do with it what it was bred for. But, thinking of the city in particular I personally would avoid anything bred to (generalisations follow - be highly focused on scent (so, no Beagles) - work independently, at a distance (see above, also no livestock guardian dogs like Maremmas) - bred to work continuously, all day (no working line dogs of any kind) - dig (no Terriers or Huskies) - herd large, fast moving animals (no Border Collies, Australian Cattle Dogs, Australian Kelpies) - guard possessions In the city I want a dog that: - is happy to see people - is looking to me for instruction (bred to work with reference to people) - is not easily startled - is not particularly possessive/defensive of territory or people Honestly, there are few breeds I'd personally get to suit my life in a highly urbanised environment. But I've seen people make it work with all sorts (provided they know what the dog's needs are, create situations to meet these needs and have skills as a trainer).
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city I think there are dogs who take things in their stride and they probably do best in the hustle and bustle of big city life. That said I'm sure many, many dogs adapt perfectly well and there are sufficient green spaces for them. I think Riley would cope but he's probably happier in the country....
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city [quote author=Oberon link=topic=7372.msg102246#msg102246 date=1408223020] There are many breeds (or strains of breeds) I would not get (city or country) unless I was going to do with it what it was bred for. But, thinking of the city in particular I personally would avoid anything bred to (generalisations follow - be highly focused on scent (so, no Beagles) - work independently, at a distance (see above, also no livestock guardian dogs like Maremmas) - bred to work continuously, all day (no working line dogs of any kind) - dig (no Terriers or Huskies) - herd large, fast moving animals (no Border Collies, Australian Cattle Dogs, Australian Kelpies) - guard possessions In the city I want a dog that: - is happy to see people - is looking to me for instruction (bred to work with reference to people) - is not easily startled - is not particularly possessive/defensive of territory or people Honestly, there are few breeds I'd personally get to suit my life in a highly urbanised environment. But I've seen people make it work with all sorts (provided they know what the dog's needs are, create situations to meet these needs and have skills as a trainer). [/quote] I like that. I see people on the common in trouble most with beagles, husky dogs and spaniels. This probably reflects the choice of dog that is common much more than the breed that is likely to be problematic though. Every beagle I've ever seen here has been on a lead (pulling, and badly). I call Charlie to heel, and the beagle owner puffs by saying something like "he is only on a lead because he'd run off".
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city Beagles are well known for putting their noses down and just going off into the far distance - for hours!
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city Yup all the beagles I meet are on leads and the ones that aren't are identifiable by an owner constantly calling their name while running round the woods in the hope they go home with the dog they came out with
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city As you know Penny is working line. We live in the city and I think she copes just fine, but then she's never lived anywhere else, apart from the farm where she was bred. We have plenty of parks that we can go to for off lead exercise and she's fine around traffic etc. The only thing I'm not so keen on is that we are right by a primary school and our morning walkies mean encountering a lot of screaming, running little humans with noisy micro scooters. This she absolutely hates as she's had a few take her by surprise zooming around the corner or suddenly from behind. If we loved in the country I'm not so sure it would be any different but the school in my mums village is a lot smaller so there would be less of them around which I think she could cope with. When I walk her with my mums dog when we go and visit I can tell she loves being in the fields and the woods and I do the sometimes wonder if she would be happier if we lived out there and she could go to those sorts of places every day... But then I wonder if she loves those places because we don't go all the time and it's a novelty so it's more enjoyable... It's a tough one I guess. Our aim eventually is to save up enough money to move out to the countryside but I can't see it happening anytime soon.
Re: (Different types of) dogs in the city Very interesting reading....We obviously live in a City and a city that is very intolerant of dogs,so I don't feel like my experiences are as pertinent to the thread as we live in such a culturally different environment . We always knew when we came to get our lab which breeder we would approach and would therefore he would be a working line dog.I had ( still have :) more idea about what this would entail than Chris and so a big part of us being able to own Dexter and live were we do required me being able to be around at home,hence the wait for him. Chris believed excercise would be enough to keep a working line dog happy....I'd read and researched enough to be unconvinced about that....and I've been proved right,if Dexter didn't get the extra play/interaction/ training sessions,company and activities through the day I think we'd have just ended up with a very,very fit dog that might have been getting into trouble at home and probably outside too ....as it is we seem to manage it ( most of the time :) and have a very chilled boy in the house. I've got gaps and cracks in Dexter's socialization that I'm only now just realising.......as much as Dubai is our home we may not be here for the whole of Dexters life and I'm kicking myself that I didn't think ahead.... dogs aren't allowed to walk past shops even on a lead here ,they aren't allowed to go to flea markets ,craft fairs,sports meetings or any pavement restaurants and cafés ( although I have sourced a cafe that is on a parade of shops and the staff says as there are no actual municipality signs up they are happy for you to sit out side with your dog so when it's cooler we are going to try. ;D) so I don't know if Dexter can cope with crowds,lots of dogs on leads ,noise,dense traffic.He can cope with our neighbourhood traffic but it's hardly bustle...... In summary,I feel like we are Urban Dwellers but I've got a dog that is more suited to a rural type of life .....
