Hello All, Not that it is a big problem for me today , but I can see this go in the wrong direction if i don't act now , We have a 2.7 yr old Lab X , Simba . Hes a rescue dog . So i do not know much about his past . But let me remind you guys that when i got him he had marks on his head and legs , which looks like bite marks . But then am not really sure . He's such a good boy at home and around me when no other dog is around (except for our other puppy lab of 19 weeks) . I use the Halti lead on him , as he walks well with it . He never pulls , but walks in-front of me . The problem is when he sees another dog, he goes crazy . He tries to free himself from the leash and go towards the dog , No barking only some whining sometimes . One day he managed to break free , but only went and sit(in a bow postilion , which i think is inviting to play) next to the other dog which was a jack russell . The owner panicked and screamed to take Simba away . Just to remind you Simba didn't even touch the other dog . This got me worried and I enrolled into a Obedience Club , Thinking may be hes not socialized well enough . But even there if a dog comes too close to him he lungs forward and does as if he would bite him , but again no bark and gets back once i pull him . I leave him off-leash only when no one is around . Now am thinking how can I help him and myself from this situation . Just this morning he again managed to break off the leash and this time it was just 2 ladies walking . he went and sat in front of them Just to add to this , Simba is a Gem at home , listens to everything we say . goes in and out as told etc . He used to bark at neighbors dogs , but now that doesn't happen . Please Advise . Am a little worried . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Vish, I think that Simba is just very keen to play with the other dogs He just sounds excited to see other dogs. But it is certainly a good idea to want to have him walking nicely and not struggling to get to other dogs he sees. One thing you can try is this: Take some really good treats on your walks and to your obedience classes - something he really likes. As you walk along keep an eye out for other dogs in the distance. Before you get too close (that is, before Simba starts to get excited) lure Simba towards you with a treat and get him to sit in front of you, or get him to heel beside you if that is something he knows how to do, giving him treats until the other dog is gone. The idea is that you want to reward him for being calm when you see other dogs - but you need to help him out by being at a distance that is far enough away so he can control himself. As he masters that distance you can gradually do this a bit closer. You can do the same kind of thing at your obedience class - keep rewarding him for looking at you and try doing little tricks with him during the class to keep his attention on you (such as shake paws, touch his nose to your hand). A dog class is a very exciting environment and it is very hard for some friendly dogs to control themselves. Just create whatever gap or distance you need between you and the other dogs and keep the treats coming for looking at you. Do you find that he gradually becomes more settled and less bouncy during the class? It might also be good to try to arrange some play time with another dog of about the same size and temperament. Do you know anyone with a dog that might be a good playmate for Simba? I know that he gets to play with your 19 week old puppy, but maybe arranging for him to meet and play with other dogs would be good for him. Ideally, you'd find somewhere safe where they can have a run around together. If you do meet up with another dog for this kind of play get him to sit first before you let him off the lead. You want to be the one to control when he gets to say hello. You might need to make sure there is plenty of distance between you and the other dog in order for him to be focused enough to sit first.
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Thank you Racheal for the response . I have been doing the treats and stuff at the obedience club and also at walks . Hes good as long as the dog is a little away like a distance of a single leash , but if the dog comes closer , he will first sniff the other dog around the nose like dogs like dogs usually do , but then just after a sec he would do as if hes biting the other dog . I haven't found a calm big dog yet for him to have a meet n greet session . I had a friend bring over their puppy , he was fine with him as well , This was at home . But yeah as u said i think its just a matter of time , as he learns . I went back to petlife Halti collar today , i was using another collar which was kind of similar to a halti but had to be connected to the leash behind the head , and had a collar with a buckle , Which he managed to escape from . I also think he draws the negative energy from me when any other dog is around . When i was clam and talking to the other owner on walks he used to not pull and used to sit when asked to , and come along when i said 'leave it' or 'lets go'. I shall keep you guys posted on how it goes . Keep the ideas coming . Thank you Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hi Vish, When dogs play with each other they "play fight" which involves wrestling, grabbing at the back of each other's neck with their teeth and trying to take each other down, sometimes even growling. So if your dog looks like he's trying to bite another dog it doesn't necessarily mean that he actually trying to bite it. It sounds more to me like your dog is trying to play, as Rachel has said. However there are other clues- is your dog snarling or showing it's teeth? Approaching on stiff legs, hackles up, tail up, ears erect? (The last two don't always mean aggression but can with the other signs). Fear aggression could also be shown by a crouching dog, ears back, so it's a bit confusing. Anyhow....I would take Rachel's suggestions and help your dog learn calmness around other dogs. And you are right, your tension is definitely felt by your dog, so if you can teach him calmness it will give you confidence in him and less tension too! Lisa (and another Simba, 1.5 years old LabX)
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello Lisa, Sure it does look like I am taking it the wrong way , may be he is a good boy and only wants to play . In-fact i made him wear they yellow "gimme space jacket" at the obedience club initially. Now we dont use it for him , I would try to be calm with him . Will keep you guys posted . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello All, We had bin to the beach yesterday . Both Simba and Bruno were off-leash . I am happy to report that Simba showed no signs of aggression . He was having fun with all the dogs around . He did a lot a swimming as well in the backwaters to reach other dogs . His recall isn't good , So i had to follow him everywhere to make sure hes not getting into trouble as some dog owners think barking is aggression (he usually bows down n does it and wagging his tail). I need to work on his recall , which is the next challenge now . Thank you all for bringing confidence in me . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs So glad you had a fun time at the beach! Have you got a copy of Total Recall? It 's a great book to help train recall.
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs He sounds like a friendly, happy dog - just a bit more vocal and excited than some. I think he'd get along well with my dog, who is the same
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs @Julie , Yes I do have a copy of the book . I haven't finished reading it yet . I got it much before we got the dogs , but looks like i need to look at it seriously . @Racheal , Its good to hear that your dog is the same . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello All , Had another disappointment today during our morning walks and yesterday at the Obedience club as well . Hes again trying to lung towards other dogs , At the Obedience club there is one particular dog which is white and a big dog . I had to take timeouts from our classes . This morning at the walks it was again the same behavior * 100 . I took him to the side when another old dog who was walking off-leash far behind his owner . The poor dog was not even bothered but just walking his way , I asked Simba to sit and he became to react violently and i had to grab his collar and now he began to get more violent and the collar came off his head . I was using the Halti on him so that still stayed on . Then later everything passed by and we are walking again . I see a German Shepherd walking at a distance coming in our direction . I then go to the other street across the park and Simba follows and listens to me when i say leave etc . After sometime , We meet the same Dog and owner in a narrow street and i try going away but Simba doesn't move , I ask him to sit but he again becomes crazy and starts jumping around still his collar comes off again . I couple of things i noticed , he wont sit when other dogs are around , Also he would stop his mad behavior once his collar comes off . i don't want to tighten his collar as it seems pretty well fit , But if he goes crazy he always manages to slide out of it . Am i doing something wrong here ! Please Advise. This wont stop me from taking him out , As am sure he means no harm , But its looks pretty scary . I do tell other dog walkers that hes a rescue and not to be afraid , But who wouldn't looking at a big dog go crazy . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs My trainer is an ex police dog trainer and not a bit as you would imagine, NO hard training with check chains etc. His advice is to not stop but to keep walking, walking through it as if nothing is happening, the dog then gains confidence. I have taught no 2 Lab to 'leave' and reward him with a tennis ball and when we are out, if he sees another dog coming, he immediately turns to me for the tennis ball. I have had terrible problems with Lab no 1 just as you describe, but he is much better now that I have changed my attitude, no being scared and tightening the lead. Practice by having a good distance between you and the other dog, so that your dog doesn't re-aact and over time you will be able to walk closer. A good idea is to find a friend with a dog and walk the dogs in parallel. It is only down my lane my dog re-acted, he felt he couldn't get away as it is narrow, so would go into 'attack' mode, which is really fear.
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Oh Vish.....big,big sympathies,did you read my posts yesterday about lunging ?Dexter isn't reacting as violently ,he's never come out of his collar,but this could possibly be because ,I slip him quickly onto his back fastening harness if I think it's a situation where I'm anticipating he won't listen to me ( this usually occurs when the other dog is excitable/barking)it gives me more control,a harness might help you to keep Simba safe .With distance and timing I've come to learn the 'sit ' does work for us.....so I think it would for you too ,you just need to find the distance that Simba can cope with ( it may seem really huge ) and work up from that.However my preference is Stacias method.....my main aim is to prevent Dexter from lying down flat from his creeping 'lion' walk, a great position to gather up to a lunge from : I'm pretty tuned into the behaviour chain now and what to look for.I trained 'look at me' with c&t and I always have some high value roast chicken on me for this and we can get past presentably if I've judged the timing and distance to start it correctly.i got despondent yesterday because I don't feel like we are closing our distance at all,but I need to keep chipping away and stay with it.so I would suggest trying that,but know that I'm not finding it easy in some cases. Him calming down when the collar is off could be a clue to what is happening.from the help and advice I got from the forum yesterday I'm starting to read up on lead reactivity...but I've only just started so I can't give much insight for you.also,I know that our other Simba on the forum who was also a rescue dog was VERY reactive to being touched/held by his collar,Lisa had to do a lot of work to desentisise him to it., this could be something your Simba has an issue with from his past,it's so hard with the rescue dogs as you don't always know their backgrounds. I really feel for you,it's not nice when you just want to give them a lovely walk.I'm only just managing ,we've had a deterioration recently and I need to nip it right in the bud,but I also concede that I'm probably a factor,I'm getting more anxious and I really need to work on that as it really doesn't help. I'll keep in touch with you on this and let you know if I find something that is working to make a change for the better,god bless you for rescuing Simba,you sound like a really great owner trying to do the best for him x PS.....Join the Club ;D I got timed out in Dexters Agility Class !!!Dexter didn't! ;D ;D ;D
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello Dexter, I did Actually read your post as well . Its assuring to find more people having the same problem .... LOL . I think the safe distance is being across the road , He would at-least listen to me and no pulling of whatsoever . His ears do stand up though , and his tail straightens up , I thought this was something to do with socializing . But as i reported his experience on the beach , not a single fight (touchwood) , But i would also have to appreciate all the dogs and their owners present there that day , I think they were better handlers and theirs dogs used to come back on the first recall . If i ask Simba to leave when there is a fair bit of a distance he does , But if its like 3-4 meters distance he lunges , But this doesn't happen in the obedience , He walks well during the social walks there , except when a dog comes in his face . This is the first time we got a timeout , its also because of our other dog Bruno , who graduated from puppy class to class 1 and keeps barking etc wanting to come close to Simba . His handler(my wife) isnt firm with him ;D One thing i would like to ask is do u guys thing Bruno who also walks along with us , will pick this behavior sooner or later . He for some reason isnt interested in dogs , he would give humans a second look but never for dogs . After Simba is done with his lunging episode and everything , Bruno will bark at Simba a couple of times , I dont know why its as if to tell him "Chill Brother" , Well that's my interpretation 8) Thank you for your kind words and thoughts , I shall keep you guys posted . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs [quote author=buzzvishwanath link=topic=5205.msg68267#msg68267 date=1397515547] One thing i would like to ask is do u guys thing Bruno who also walks along with us , will pick this behavior sooner or later . He for some reason isnt interested in dogs , he would give humans a second look but never for dogs . After Simba is done with his lunging episode and everything , Bruno will bark at Simba a couple of times , I dont know why its as if to tell him "Chill Brother" , Well that's my interpretation 8) [/quote] I haven't got enough dog experience to give you an opinion whether it will affect Bruno's behaviour but I think there might be something in him telling Simba off! ;D we used to walk with a Dalmatian when Dexter was only about 6 months old.I hadn't started training total recall then,if they were off lead and we called them back,the Dalmatian would always come,Dexter used to sometimes go deaf ;D when I finally coaxed him back to me,Gus used to give him a nip on the neck as if to say ,'behave,that's not how it's done!'my friends German shepherd was giving him a nip on the neck at the weekend when he was getting really firm NO's about leaping up for the ball thrower ( yes,still doing that :-\ :-\ :-\)if my friend told him off,her dog have him a nip!
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello Dexter , Yeah it might be Bruno telling him that . I plan to take Simba out more often and try some more techniques like having a loose leash when other dogs are around etc , to see if it helps . I still think I am also responsible for his behavior . Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs I think the collar coming off thing is an additional worry that you don't need. It's fine is you have an alternative of course. I think it's not so much the tightness around the neck, but the ratio of neck to head that determines if a collar will slip off. You can get collars specifically for narrow headed dogs, which might help. The only thing that has worked for me (just yesterday and this morning) - apart from distance etc - is to have a super, super, big high value treat. I'm using it blatantly as a bribe right now - "you walk passed this dog and ignore it, and you get a massive hunk of smelly fish skin". Charlie focused on the treat, rather than the dog. Then I'll make it smaller, then try with it in my pocket, so it's a reward not a bribe. Might be completely wrong though! It is a seriously big, seriously smelly, treat.
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello Julie Yes that worries me as well, What if one day he doesn't stop once his collar is off etc etc . Looks like his flat collar isn't tight enough , Since hes a cross he has more sagging skin from his head downwards , which is why i don't tighten it too much . I plan to get a harness so that i have better grip on him in such events. Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Hello All , Am happy to report that i am beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel . I believe Simba is getting better as days go by , Also hes better now with dogs around . We have had few more off-leash sessions with him in fenced dog parks and he's great , Never really bothers other dogs once he's had a sniff at them , hes on his way sniffing around elsewhere and eating grass . I am still keeping a distance from some dogs when on leash , also working on reducing the distance gradually . I dont let him off leash everyday as his recall isnt still perfect . I think even i am more confident with him and other dogs around us , so may be even thats helping our case . Will keep you guys posted . Thank you for all the help Cheers Vish
Re: Dog behaving bad with other dogs Its a great feeling when you have a bit of a breakthrough. keep up the good work
