Here's a new question I haven't seen any literature on. What happens if a visitor in your home decided to "help" train your puppy and uses dominance tactics to train your dog when you aren't around. Does the damage they could potentially cause affect his training from me? Will there be any lasting negative fallout or will he forget and simply be his happy easily trainable self again when I get home and back in the picture. He's a 4 month old very trainable and intelligent black lab. Problem is the person in question is old school and hasn't read Pippas books. lol
Oh heck ,Johnny ,without knowing the background to what your relationship is with this person my first instinct is to ask what on earth is happening that you would let someone handle your dog like this ,especially when you aren't there? Dominance and training based on it is incredibly punishing to a dog,not to mention completely outdated and unnecessary...and thankfully it sounds to me that you are enlightened enough to understand that.So what the effect will be between you and your dog I can't say .....but your dog will definately be affected by training in this fashion. You describe him as 'happy,easily,trainable' so please find a trainer/training course that will suit his personality,he sounds like he would be so responsive to reward based training and really enjoy it. Are you struggling with some parts of his training,is this why you are looking for 'help' ? Post on the Forums if you are,there is so much experience there to help you and A wealth of training information with excercises and guidance on the main site. Best wishes Angela
Thanks for the reply. I'm using reward based training and have great success. I personally don't have problems in any areas yet, my boy is keen to learn and seems to have all the right stuff to be a gun dog, which is what he is being prepped for. But when I'm not home he becomes second fiddle to a new baby and they dont have the patience and knowledge I've accumulated from Pippas books. They want the instant results you would get from a well trained 2 year old. When frustration sets in and he gets confused cause he doesn't know what they want from him. He's 4 months. You can't expect a 4 month old puppy to "down" for more than a few minutes. I'm just hoping they don't undo most of whst I've done. My wife tries to follow my training when she can but being a new mommy she doesn't have a lot of time. I'm sure he'll be fine in the end, I'm just hoping there isn't any lasting damage from the In laws methods.
I agree with Angela. You don't want a dog that is fearful, that will certainly damage your +R training, even if it's not you doing it. The issue is that +R training requires the dog to be confident in offering new behaviours, so that we can reward those behaviours and ignore the ones we don't want (or, train alternative, conflicting behaviours). If a dog learns that offering behaviours gets him punished, he's going to stop doing that sharpish, leaving you with a dog that is so much more difficult to train. It's obviously difficult if you're living in your in laws' house, but I'd say you have to work out some way where they don't have access to your dog to treat him this way. I would be very clear that it's not how anyone treats my dog. If they're around all day, that could be a problem, but you could have him in a puppy pen and arrange for someone who does use +R to take him out during the day. Exactly the same as if he were alone at home with you out working.
I think you have to lay down the rules very firmly. Make sure they know they are not, under any circumstances, to attempt to train your dog to do anything. I think Snowbunny's suggestions would be the way to go if you possibly can. When we leave Coco with the out-laws (only for a few hours a few times a year) his Mum always recounts tales of how well Coco responds to and obeys her "Barbara Woodhouse" voice, how he knows she's "pack-leader" - I cringe, but I know she wouldn't punish him, ever. And she does not attempt to train anything - she wouldn't know where to start! So I just put up with it, no harm done in our case.
I've laid down the law several times. I've told her to not even look at or touch the puppy ever. Cruel cause she loves dogs but she is interfering with my +R training. She does as I ask when I'm home but I heard from friends she pinned him trying to get him to lay down at a family BBQ. It is my wife's mother who is staying with us to help with the newborn while I'm away at work. She will be gone soon. My family is on board with +R so a friend saw and took him away from her for a walk. She also believes in the Alpha mentality and has been told but she believes she's helping and tries to secretly bond with him. Her daughter every told her how important the bond between us is because he will be more than a family pet. She will be gone soon which is why I was wondering if the damage will last after she's gone. Thanks again for the replies.
Ps. He shows no signs of aggression or fear and was well socialized around people, boats, atv'S cities etc during the correct period of his development. He also recalls in busy fields with lots of people and shotgun fire. Just hope he keeps it up. Wonderful animal. Just a normal puppy and shouldn't be punished for being so.
Hi Johnny, I can really sympathise with this, it astonishes me how many people think they know better than me about my puppy! I too agree that a pen or somewhere he can be when you are not there and the right person to let him out etc. I had a really bad experience when a different person looked after her one day when I was working and took her for "long walk" (age 4 mths) -- I was beside myself as when you've put so much into working with your puppy , recall etc, you just don't want it to go wrong in a flash. A sharp lesson to me to ensure I give clear instructions as to what I require, in this case just out in the garden please! I do think from observing over the years that dogs behave differently for different people according how they relate to them, so perhaps it won't be too detrimental if he already has good bond with you and it's temporary. That's only my observation though, no scientific basis.
Hopefully if she's going soon there won't be any lasting issues. It's very difficult as she's come to help with baby and a new baby and everyone is tired isn't the best situation for negotiating puppy training. As long as she isn't physically chastising the puppy I guess I'd have to grit my teeth and count down until she's gone! May be a little confusion at first but when it's you and your wife again doing the training sure pup will forget all about nasty grandma! Lol (just joking)
I've been lucky my family have been very understanding. The only time I had a problem ever had was when my dad went crazy and chased Moo round the garden with his walking stick, he chased me too. He was so ill it was a strange time. Moo was totally unfazed.
My own experience of trying to train a family pet in Gundog work is that other people - that won't go along with your instructions - is pretty disastrous. Mixing the mad set of 'training' from well meaning family members, with the much more structured handling and training needed for a puppy that is supposed to make a good Gundog is very difficult. I'm now on my second puppy, and have told my family if they even so much as give her a single cue, I'll buy a 3rd puppy, and a 4th, until they stop messing with my puppies! Luckily they are all very good in terms of positive training, so I don't have any real worries about the impact on the dog - just the training - but they don't half mess up my Gundog training!
