I read today on another forum that if dogs are castrated early they give off a scent like a bitch in season, which is why some male dogs are so attractive to other entire males ! I am not an advocate of early neutering anyway and already knew about the other negative reasons for not having it done, but I had no idea this was the case too. Interestingly, those who relplied on the forum that their dogs were a target for other male dogs 'humping' them had all had their dogs castrated between 6-9 months old! Anyone else heard this before ? Chloe
Re: Early castration This is a new one on me. If a bitch has to be in season to smell like a bitch in season how can a castrated male smell like a bitch in season ? Scott every so often tries to hump Scout neither are castrated. My cousins old dog, a bitch, used to hump a cushion across the room. Once memorably during their youngest child's after christening party. ;D Not sure what the attractions are but its not because they smell like a bitch in season.
Re: Early castration I also found reference to it in this article below, the full article can be found on the website Doglistener.co.uk How I found the Problem with Neutering I noted some 12 years ago that the incidence of frustration, lack of attention, and puppy like behaviour, appeared to be far more prevalent in dogs that were castrated and spayed at a younger age. Rather than those that were allowed to mature naturally before attempting this operation. As behavioural consultants and obedience trainers, I find that we are treating many more cases where dogs are displaying (paedomorphic) tendencies. That is puppy like behaviour's in adult dogs, which I believe is related to the incidence of early spaying and neutering. I also observed that bitches spayed too early, may be far more interesting to intact males; unwanted male attention. This can cause the female to become aggressive and protective in adulthood. Neutered young males can also attract attention from full males. In some cases these poor animals are hounded wherever that go by unwanted male attention. Do not blame the males this is caused by neutering while the dogs are still immature and the smell they give of smells like a bitch in season.
Re: Early castration I wonder how they know that a male castrated young smells like a bitch in season to an intact male ? I guess they must be able to do some sort of test ?
Re: Early castration Maybe taking the testosterone away early makes the female hormone more dominant ??? Chloe
Re: Early castration Hmmm......doesn't sound logical...but...... All women have both male and female hormones, and men the same, just different balances. I presume that is the same for dogs. When the balance changes eg after the menopause, the levels become more equal. And women become more masculine in their characteristics. More of a masculine shape, male pattern baldness. Men get female characteristics such as boobs if they are chemically castrated (or surgically I suppose). Therefore a castrated dog may have more female hormones than an uncastrated one, but never as many as an unspayed female I wouldn't think (Imagine a set of scales going up and down). You would think it wouldn't become any more than level. BUT - testosterone, the male hormone, can be converted to oestrogen, the female hormone by fat cells in the body - this is normal and I think needed for normal body functioning. So.......its possible the scale balance might tip in favour of more oestrogen than testosterone in male dogs ? ? ? And therefore make them attractive to randy male dogs. Dogs do have sensitive noses I suppose. Could they pick up this subtlety?? We have a male dog we sometimes meet that is hugely interested in Lilly who was spayed before her first season. I dunno...... Need some vet input maybe Just my rambling mind.......
Re: Early castration Ugh, this is making me question my decision to have Willow spayed before her first season. I thought I had all the facts and had made an informed decision and now this crops up. Will I be leaving her with potential unwanted boy doggy attention for the rest of her life? :-\
Re: Early castration With respect, rubyrubyruby, that article is someone's anecdotal observations and doesn't constitute bar evidence in my book. I honestly have never heard of this. Snowbunny, there's one way to guarantee that Willow will have unwanted males bugging her and that is to not spey her
Re: Early castration [quote author=Oberon link=topic=9405.msg135438#msg135438 date=1420632340] With respect, rubyrubyruby, that article is someone's anecdotal observations and doesn't constitute bar evidence in my book. I honestly have never heard of this. Snowbunny, there's one way to guarantee that Willow will have unwanted males bugging her and that is to not spey her [/quote] Haha, that wasn't an option at all, just having read the pros and cos of before or after the first season, I decided that before was the right decision for us. But if, by doing so, we were subjecting her to a lifetime of being badgered, when waiting a few months (and dealing with the stress of that, as well as rehoming Shadow for that time with friends) could ensure that they didn't bother her in years come - well, it's worth some consideration. Although, we're dealing with so many ifs and buts, no certainties in any of it, so I'm pretty sure we'll stick to plan.
Re: Early castration To be fair, I didn't say that the article showed evidence I said it was 'reference' to it. I started this thread to see if anyone else had heard about it, as it was the first I had heard when I read it on another breed forum. I thought it was interesting comment. I then googled it and found this article. I thought it would be interesting to see if any owners on here who had had their puppies neutered early had experienced it with their dogs ? Chloe
Re: Early castration I have owner 3 dogs and they have all been castrated, two before a year old and Simba when he was a year. I haven't noticed this although, to be fair, the vast majority of people here in Canada get their pets neutered as a matter of course unless they are breeders so there are not many"entire" animals to encounter.
Re: Early castration Over the past eight or nine years , I have had one bitch spayed prior to her first season as advised by the Vet in France , the one spayed after her first season as advised by a Vet in the UK, then Millie spayed as an older bitch last year and after numerous seasons . Sam was castrated at about a year old , as have my other dogs been and I can honestly say that I haven't noticed any difference in the behaviour of any of them or behaviour shown to any of them by other dogs, male or female
Re: Early castration Another time round I would still spay before a first season unless there was a medical reason not to do so, or new evidence/new vet would strongly advise against it. I the latter was the case I might shop around for vets. The need to avoid puppies for me would be the over-riding reason to spay early.
Re: Early castration Well, puppies can obviously be avoided and still let the bitch have a season, by keeping her inside throughout that season. For me, having never had a female dog and only going on accounts of others' seasons, I don't think that's something I would want to do, neither for my, nor her mental wellbeing! Most of my decisions though have been based on medical decisions, although I'm also aware that there are counter-arguments to them, which is why the Guide Dogs Association is doing their study currently. It's such a minefield and you can only do what you believe to be right for your circumstances. Even before we had Shadow, I'd decided that an early spay was the way to go. Now we have him, it's even more sensible. He'll have to stay with a neighbour for the time she's recovering from her operation, but I'll still be able to go and walk him every day, feed him and play with him because he'll only be a couple of doors away - and living with his best mate! - whereas if we let Willow have a season, I'd want him to be out of the house for that whole time, which is far longer and less fair on such a sensitive soul than the few days of post-op. BUT if there was conclusive evidence that waiting for a season to happen before spaying would increase Willow's ongoing quality of life, it would be more of a consideration for short-term upheaval. It does all seem anecdotal, however. And as much as anecdotal doesn't mean untrue, it's impossible to say whether it's something to actually take into consideration. So, the decision is unchanged. Early spay it is. Sorry, I'm waffling!
Re: Early castration [quote author=rubyrubyruby link=topic=9405.msg135451#msg135451 date=1420641659] To be fair, I didn't say that the article showed evidence I said it was 'reference' to it. I started this thread to see if anyone else had heard about it, as it was the first I had heard when I read it on another breed forum. I thought it was interesting comment. I then googled it and found this article. I thought it would be interesting to see if any owners on here who had had their puppies neutered early had experienced it with their dogs ? Chloe [/quote] Perfectly reasonable
