On Thursday Molly managed to back out of her harness. I was, yet again trying to save her from harm as she tried to chomp on some rubbish. I grabbed her collar attached harness and lead to it (quite a feat with a squirming dog) then disconnected her harness and wended our merry way home. I totally accept that the answer is training. We are a work in progress and to be fair she does walk nicely of the lead most of the time (she has learnt that she pulls I STOP). However she is a four month old puppy and liable to lunge at things that take her interest. I am a little old lady, 5ft 2inches, weighing just over eight stone. I had polio as a child and although I got away with it very lightly I have very little upper body strength, so not the ultimate candidate for dog wrestling. I need some help in physically controlling Molly. I was using a harness, but even with that if she takes off I have to take a couple of steps after her before I can fully apply the breakes Karen Pryor mentions the Gentle Leader in her book. I have also seen something called a Gencol? mentioned. I used a Halti with my last dog, but I couldn't find one that fitted Molly's face. I really could do with some advice. My husband has fashioned a safety clip carbinieres and a short length of chain. Not only do I have the joy of wrestling her while I attach it in 3 places but, she looks very butch has she walks along with the webbing of her harness and her leather collar. I really do need some advice on which method/product to use to ensure both our safety. And finally, if you are wondering why a couple of pensioners were daft enough to take on a Labrador. Well I'd only ever seen those wonderfully dignified adult dogs that work as guide dogs etc. What I really, really want to know is "where have you been hiding all those frantic Labrador puppies for all these years?"
Re: Equipment Failure Hi Tina. I too am 5ft 2inches, but weigh slightly more than you . I have spinal problems and have metal plates in my neck and arthritis in my neck. I cannot allow Harley to pull me because of this. I purchased a body harness (Google mesh soft harness) which goes over their head and does up on their body. The lead attaches to the back. The harness has been fab as it doesn't choke Harley and has helped me control her as When she lunges (luckily not oftenM), it s easier to stop her as if held he front legs will come off the ground which reduces the weight behind the lunge. See the photo attached of what it looks like on. Harley is 6 months old and weighs 17.5kg. Worth a try http://flic.kr/p/juvLhx
Re: Equipment Failure http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php I'm trying to post a link for you Tina from Labrador Training....Pulling on the Lead...I don't think I've done it right but it's on the first page so you can see it... It contains a lot of discussion on the different methods and devices you can employ to help you and some of the shortfalls you might discover...have a read ,there's a few things in there that can help. I met a lady in the park with a lovely black Labrador bitch wearing a halti today....we got talking and she said she had pulled her over and broken her fingers!i didn't ask how old the dog was but she looked about 3 or 4 ....they are very strong dogs but you can master the pulling x
Re: Equipment Failure Training is of course the ultimate solution, but I do sympathize with your dilemma as I struggle at times to control my pooch going after some tasty bits of garbage or who knows what lying on the ground. I am training a "leave it" with limited success at the moment. Once I can start to use my clicker on the walks (too hard right now in the winter temps, I can't go without mittens at the moment) I am hoping we will make more progress on it. So that is another thing you can work on training as well as the "no pull", so that if see her going for something you can stop her before she gets there. However, another solution might be a leash that I have seen here in the pet store (I live in Canada). It has a bit of bungee in it so that the shock of a sudden pull is absorbed by the leash and isn't as much of a wrench on you. Don't know if you can get those where you are but it might help you with those sudden lurches. I also used a Halti with my previous dog, a Border Collie, whom I just couldn't train not to pull (didn't have a wonderful forum like this to go to when I needed help back then!) and I found it worked really well, although it was not easy to get him used to it and he never really loved it, but it sure made it easier to take him on walks.
Re: Equipment Failure I struggle to think what the solution might be for you. Lots of sympathy though, I'm most definitely not small (I'm 5ft 9in) or frail, but when Charlie goes nuts, I need my equipment - which for me is a back fastening padded harness and a very, very, short padded lead. It's not easy to hold him though, he is a strong dog at 29kgs and nearly a year old. I have Charlie on 2 leads when we are going into situations where he might go nuts - I walk him on his flat collar and longer lead and try to get him to behave but if it turns into crisis management, his short lead is on his harness ready for me to pick up. Then if I need to walk forwards while he is still going nuts, I hold him in a heel position with his short lead in my left hand, and the longer lead in my right. How did Molly manage to back out of a harness? I wonder if you had it too loose? A front fastening harness, snug around the tummy behind the legs should be difficult for a dog to back out of, really. There is no way Charlie could back out of his back fastening harness, I don't think.
Re: Equipment Failure Hi Tina, I have discovered the miracle that is the front fastening harness....basically if the dog pulls it goes backwards. Sorted. Brodick got one recently when we were doing Pheasant Chase Impulse Control ( ie 29 kilo dog leaping and trying to sprint off after pheasants and pulling like a steam train while barking) he gave up the pulling bit very quickly as its no use....I use it with him if we are going for a dander round town, which is very exciting with streets full of old burgers, chip bags, etc...doest even attempt lungage with it on...I love it. Loads on the internet but its better to try it on before buying as fit is important.....and yes training is the answer but no harm if having a bit of help...
Re: Equipment Failure Absolutely totally agree with Debsie. I really don't quite understand why anyone uses a back fastening harness because to me your just transferring the pulling power from the neck to the back. Think about Huskies pulling a sledge they wear back fastening harnesses to give them full pulling power. I am also very petite 5ft 4" and only 7 stone and our rescue dog Charlie is a Lab x Pointer weights 30 kgs and is 27" to the withers, so a big lad and I can walk him on a FRONT fastening harness which also has the option of attaching a double lead to the front and back D rings allowing me to steer him back round to walk beside me with no effort involved and no pulling. I bought mine at Pets at Home for £16.00 and if you take your dog in they will fit it for you. I do sympathise there is nothing worse then being pulled around by your dog and embarrassing too :-[ Good luck and keep going you will get there x
Re: Equipment Failure [quote author=charlie link=topic=4370.msg53125#msg53125 date=1391954625] I really don't quite understand why anyone uses a back fastening harness because to me your just transferring the pulling power from the neck to the back. Think about Huskies pulling a sledge they wear back fastening harnesses to give them full pulling power. [/quote] There are good reasons . It is a very safe way to control a dog. Critically for Charlie, with an injured leg, front fastening harnesses can change a dog's gait, making them turn slightly towards the handler and some manufacturers of front fastening harnesses recommend, if this is the case, the dog is walked on both sides to stop this causing problems with their joints. This is very undesirable for Charlie. And since the back fastening harness is for emergencies only - training being our first defence - it works fine for us.
Re: Equipment Failure Hi Julie, I can totally understand why you would use a back attaching harness with Charlie due to his injury but for a dog that purely pulls and doesn't have any injuries wouldn't the front one be more helpful?
Re: Equipment Failure [quote author=Mollly link=topic=4370.msg52953#msg52953 date=1391856751] I am a little old lady, 5ft 2inches, weighing just over eight stone. I had polio as a child and although I got away with it very lightly I have very little upper body strength, so not the ultimate candidate for dog wrestling.... [/quote] I'm 6'2" and, by the looks of it, weigh about the same as any two previous posters put together - and I can still lose at dog wrestling to 5 month old Harvey! I think it's down to the lower centre of gravity that dogs have compared to us. I say this not to depress you but to show some empathy Physical stature isn't the determining factor in the end - as you rightly say "the answer is training". I found that what has helped us is direction changes; rather than trying to stand stock still and engage in a tug of war just call Molly to get her attention whilst doing a complete about face. This has really started to pay off recently with long(er) periods of 'loose lead' walking in between (much reduced) pulling. It has the added advantage of really confusing anyone that happens to be walking behind you! ;D
Re: Equipment Failure Thanks Unclebob but what do you do if you have been doing this for 2 1/2 years and it still hasn't worked but instead it has now become a habit of me stop/turn, Charlie does a round about return to me every few feet and hasn't learned anything? Difficult ???
Re: Equipment Failure [quote author=charlie link=topic=4370.msg53128#msg53128 date=1391955874] Hi Julie, I can totally understand why you would use a back attaching harness with Charlie due to his injury but for a dog that purely pulls and doesn't have any injuries wouldn't the front one be more helpful? [/quote] Yes, absolutely - I might not have been clear in my post, but that's why I questioned why a properly fitted front fastening harness wouldn't be good for Molly. I wonder what harness she backed out of though?
Re: Equipment Failure [quote author=charlie link=topic=4370.msg53132#msg53132 date=1391956594] Thanks Unclebob but what do you do if you have been doing this for 2 1/2 years and it still hasn't worked but instead it has now become a habit of me stop/turn, Charlie does a round about return to me every few feet and hasn't learned anything? Difficult ??? [/quote] Hi Helen. I wish I could give you an answer that would solve your problem. However, Harvey is our first dog and I'm just picking-up bits and pieces of information as I go along (training classes, books, this forum, YouTube videos). The about face is something that is really beginning to work for us. I don't know if it helps but I try to make it as random as possible; sometimes I'll turnaround and only take one step before turning back again, sometimes I completely give up on the original direction and just keep going back the way came and take another turn somewhere, and usually somewhere in between. Sometimes I also turn, take one step, and then stop and wait for Harvey to sit before moving off again. As I see it, it helps to keep your dog guessing as to which way you will be going and for how long - that way (in theory!) they should be paying more attention to you and staying closer. (Again, keep in mind that these are just the rambling thoughts of a novice - if you get conflicting advice from one of the seasoned hands then go with what they say! )
Re: Equipment Failure The harness Molly backed out of was a Pets at Home one. It didn't come with instructions, but we thought we had it adequately tight (two fingers could be slipped in). She had been using it for several weeks. However, it was nylon webbing and I think that was why she was able to wriggle out.
Re: Equipment Failure [quote author=Mollly link=topic=4370.msg53217#msg53217 date=1391976072] The harness Molly backed out of was a Pets at Home one. It didn't come with instructions, but we thought we had it adequately tight (two fingers could be slipped in). She had been using it for several weeks. However, it was nylon webbing and I think that was why she was able to wriggle out. [/quote] Charlie was able to wiggle out of a PAH harness in seconds (they might be just fine for less wiggly dogs). I have one of these (which I don't use very often be because I prefer other harnesses i have). This has the option of a front or back fastening: http://dog-games-shop.co.uk/perfect-fit-fleece-dog-harness
Re: Equipment Failure The PAH front attaching harness I have has a clip that attaches to the collar so your dog cannot wriggle out of it, at least Charlie hasn't
Re: Equipment Failure i have bought, halti, lupi, front fastening harness, .....i use a back fastening harness, my son uses flat collar, i find when i take him out he pulls, so i just walk 100 yards, stopping along the way, changing directions, making him sit every time he pulls, walking back from his walk, he walks to heal, concentrates on me, like a true pro
Re: Equipment Failure Amy used to get out of her PAH harness too, and her halti. So back to flat collar and lead here!
Re: Equipment Failure I know you said you used a halti with your previous dog but couldn't get it to fit your current dogs face, what about a gentle leader? They work exactly the same but you can get a better fit out of them as you have more room for adjustment. I have used one with my pup and it's brilliant. The only reason I stopped is because he has to learn to walk to heel without training aids for our Rally class. Also if you are looking for a harness that is virtually escape proof I highly recommend the ruffwear web master. It's expensive but definately worth the money as I've never had a dog escape from one (and workin in kennels for 7 years I've seen my fair share of escape artists!)
Re: Equipment Failure I use gentle leaders on my two. The combined weight of my two labs is now heavier than me but I don't have a problem with the gentle leaders. I started with haltis but found they rubbed because they slacken and tighten which I also think made them more uncomfortable for the dogs. If I didn't keep tension on them they'd get them off. They don't bother at all with the gentle leader no nose rubbing or trying to get them off so I assume they are more comfortable. Although my two walk very well at heel I stil use the gentle leader for security just incase a rabbit, cat or pheasant should take their fancy. Better safe than sorry. :
