We have a serious problem with Bob. He has attacked 3 dogs this week (on 3 separate occasions). My OH was at the pub and Bob just went for these dogs. One of them he literally was biting his back, it was full on apparently. Bob was off lead on one occasion and then on lead on the other two occasions. OH said he didn't have time to react and pull Bob away as the dogs appeared from behind him. Now OH will not take him to any public places anymore (restaurants/cafes/pubs etc) as he's pretty shaken up and he now doesn't trust Bob. He said he would only take him if he was muzzled Our fear is that on one occasion Bob will go for the wrong dog who is bigger and more aggressive - and he's going to be seriously hurt. But equally we cannot avoid these situations forever, we need a fix. We think the neutering has brought this on (he was 'done' in October). We think it's because he feels vulnerable with these other dogs as he has less testosterone. He was aggressive for a bit, but then it all died out and we thought he'd gotten over it. But clearly not. We have a 121 session booked with a trainer end February (the earliest slot we could get). It's such a shame. He's fine off lead, meets and greets without any problems. If anything he's less inclined to go over to dogs, I recall him away from a dog very easily now. Any ideas as to what we can do in the meantime (until our appointment)? Should we avoid the public places while Bob is feeling like this? We want to do the best for him and not making anything worse. Any advice appreciated. Thanks guys.
Oh Louise, what an awful predicament you are in. Was he really aggressive or was it simply he went over the top? My gut reaction is that I wouldn't want to muzzle a dog unless absolutely necessary it send out a very negative message that will be very difficult get past. I am sorry. I am no use to you. I just didn't want you to feel on your own with the problem.
I agree I don't want the muzzle. So we will steer well clear of these sorts of environments until it's sorted. I just hope it's fixable he's such an old softy. And he used to love all the attention he got at the pub. Yes I'm answer to your question @Mollly it was aggression. OH was really freaked out. He's not been sleeping since he's so worried about it. OH is not one to exaggerate either really.
Oh Lou, how difficult for you. I would probably avoid confined spaces with Bob as all 3 incidents occurred in the pub both on and off lead. What would be helpful is if you OH can remember any possible triggers, body stance, facial expression etc. that preceded each incident as I'm sure your behaviourist will ask those sorts of questions. Do be careful though when he is walking off lead with you in case he goes for another dog and someone makes a complaint. Wish I could offer better help
Hi Lou. Big hugs, this is a really horrible issue to have. I've been going through similar with Shadow, always with boy dogs, so I'm pretty sure this is a testosterone issue. He was very nervy as a puppy and, although he's grown in confidence, I think that he does have underlying nervousness which is a large component of the problem. To answer your question, I now don't take him into enclosed environments where there are other (unknown) boy dogs that are close by - bars etc. He is a lot more reactive if either he, or the other dog, or both, are on lead. I'm unsure whether there has been anything "serious" with him, (it sounds awful when it's happening, but I am not experienced enough to say whether it's any more than loud posturing) but he's certainly made a couple of dogs squeal, and it's so upsetting to see him turn into a horrible beast, because he's generally the softest, soppiest creature in the world. So I really do sympathise. I've been working on it as best I can with the limited number of dogs around, and I've seen some promising signs recently. There's one dog in the village he's particularly reactive to - I don't think this dog has ever been off lead in his life, for fear he'd run away. I see him about once every two weeks or so, so it's still a limited opportunity, but I'll have Shadow on lead and reward him for being calm. Lots of rewards. At first, he couldn't manage at all, even at a distance, he'd be on full alert, and not be able to take his gaze from the other dog. But, with a bit of work, we managed to walk past him today, with only a couple of glances - no barking or pulling towards him. Yesterday, he ran up to two boy dogs that surprised me by being somewhere that no-one walks - he didn't respond to his stop or recall, which is another issue, sigh - and I was expecting handbags at dawn, but, having said a rather stiff hello, he then came back to me. So, baby steps, but he's having positive mini-encounters. I think that's the key; in the short term, try to have as many non-negative experiences as possible around other dogs. Start at a distance and gradually work closer, giving him loads of really, really good treats for positive behaviour. I think a bit of maturity may be kicking in to help him mellow slightly, but I wouldn't rely on this alone, and do as much training as I can. Interestingly, when I took him training in November, he wasn't interested in the other dogs at all when he was in "work mode". So I'm trying to work on being able to turn that "work mode" on when he's in a state of arousal. That is going to be a long road Is this 121 in Feb with a gun dog trainer, or a general trainer/behaviourist?
Hi Fiona, Thanks for the detailed reply - is Shadow in tact? I only ask because Bob was fine with all dogs (male, female, large, small) before he was 'done'. It's only been since his neutering that we've had this issue. So I'm not sure if what is prompting Bob to be aggressive is the same as what is prompting Shadow? I think with Bob it's a fear or vulnerability thing.. it only seems to be dogs that are same size or larger. When Bob was little he was uber confident around all dogs, not at all nervous. Just wanted to play with everyone. I think the lack of testosterone has had a real impact on him which is such a shame. The upside is that he's fantastic out off lead now.. no problems there at all anymore. But it's come at a price. OH really regrets getting him 'done'.. but then he never used to take Bob out that much off lead, I do all that sort of thing. Our 121 is with a general trainer... although waiting a month seems like a long time (she's good hence that's the reason she gets booked up) Maybe we need to find someone else who's got more availability.... Lou x
Shadow is intact, yes. He was picked on a lot by male dogs when he was going through early adolescence, which isn't unusual, but I think it made him unnecessarily nervous around boys, and he started anticipating the nastiness. Like I said, he was a very nervy puppy and he still shows signs of that in unfamiliar situations, and so I don't think it's gone away - and that nervousness puts him in "fight" mode a little too easily. We have no need to have him neutered because he's not oversexed, and even if he was, I'd be very reluctant to have him done, because of the chance it could make him even less confident. I don't know if it's relevant, but he's met two bitches in season and not reacted in a sexual manner to either of them, so I wonder if he has lower than average levels of testosterone, which could exacerbate the nervousness - and be similar to the issues you have with Bob from being neutered? Or, it could just be he's too young and immature to know what to do with his bits
What an awful experience, and such a worry, I am sure though with the right behaviourist you will work through this, especially as this is a recent behaviour, not an ingrained habit. We have a very, very lead reactive lab, we don't know how this happened as he is a rescue so we don't have much of a history. Casper is 7. We have made great inroads and can largely manage, it has been a long old haul though. He still can't cope in some situations, so we have learned to anticipate and avoid. He can come across as very aggressive as he lunges and barks at other dogs, he is not, just reacting to the situation because he is feeling overwhelmed and stressed. The first thing I would do is absolutely for now avoid those situations where you feel Bob is feeling uncomfortable, secondly distance is your friend...keep lots of it between Bob and other dogs on lead. Try to avoid walking towards other dogs, this approach may be too direct for him, instead try a curve, or ideally wait until they have moved away. There are lots of very good techniques, the sooner the better. Really quiz any behaviourist over their experience with reactive dogs, what did they do, even ask if you can talk to their clients. I don't know what causes dogs to become reactive, I am starting to think it is in their genes...and although some factors can influence behaviours, training has a huge impact as well as negative experiences with other dogs. I really believe dogs are born with the propensity to behave in a certain way. I am also starting to rethink the whole "socialisation" thing, and am wondering if we can inadvertently over socialise dogs and maybe exposing them to too much too soon.
Hi Lou, was just wondering about your general trainers experience/qualification in canine behaviour as a good trainer may or may not have the skills and knowledge to analyse Bob's behaviour.
Hi Lou, So sorry to hear this. I think you need to seek professional advice now - don't be alarmed by that, but it might be the best thing in terms of sorting Bob out now, so you can live a happy, relaxed life. I think these people are good (I only say think because I consulted them over a different issue to Bob's, so I can't vouch for them for other things, but my limited experience was positive). I know it's a long drive for you, so you might find somewhere closer, but beware - there are a LOT of useless "behaviourists" around. Shop around for a good one. http://dogcommunication.co.uk/wp2/
@MaccieD you raise a valid point. I think I shall call them and ask about their experience. Seems silly to wait a month for an appointment and then find out they aren't suitably experienced. Thanks @JulieT I will check out that link. Thank you all. Xx
The link looks very interesting and also that they work upon vet referral to eliminate a physical cause of the problem.
Yes Banstead isn't too far away really. I grew up near there. Will give our lady a call this weekend and go from there. Poor Bob. Bloody hormones. X
Oh Louise sorry to read about poor Bob, how upsetting for you. I don't have any advice just wanted to say hope you have a positive outcome with the behaviourist.
Yes, good point re: eliminating any physical reasons which may be aggravating his anxiety/stress. I know when we explored the reasons with Casper we found out he had HD combined with lower spine problems. This, whilst not causing his stress certainly in the vets opinion wouldn't helped as he was dealing with low grade pain the entire pain. Casper being such a good dog, hid his symptoms very well.
Oh Lou, so sorry to hear, it must me so worrying for you. I have absolutely no experience with this so can't offer any advice. However, one of my friends has a dog that is very reactive to dogs he doesn't know so, while she is working on it, she got a little coat to go on him that says "nervous dog, please give space" to help others to know to keep their distance. Not a long term solution but it might give your OH a little more confidence to head out and about again. Good luck xx
Wow, quite a problem you have there with your dog. Sorry I have no answer for you. I'm guessing you are not from the U.S. where leash laws are nearly universally mandated in public spaces. Fines are significant and a biting dog is not long for this life. God forbid your dog bites a person no matter how little blood spills. A civil suit will soon follow. Such is life here in the States. Best of luck.
Ah Lou,I'm really pleased Julie could give you a link which might help you get help quicker...I had to do a lot of work with Dexter with a trainer to help him (and me) with his reactive issues.Please tell you Husband that I had a lunging pulling,barking dog at one point and walks and encounters with other dogs on lead were becoming miserable.Getting advice from and experienced behaviourist to identify exactly what is going on and Training will give you tools to help Bob cope with whatever is going on.Dexter is neutered but he is hyper sensitive to his environment which makes him quite nervy and highly strung....he is so much better now that he realises I'm not freaking out about it because getting help gave me confidence x Best of Luck.......sorry you've had such a shake up ,its upsetting for everybody involved x
