Stanley used to love the vets, but ever since that horrible woman pinned him down and forced the injection into his neck he’s got quite a fear (unsurprisingly). He’s ok in the waiting room but as soon as he hears his name it’s as though the remembers and plants his feet firmly in the ground and refuses to move so I have to carry him in. And then he cowers in the corner shaking. We’re coming up to his vaccinations soon and I’m dreading it! The thing is.. I have loads of options where I love. Do you think I’d be better off taking him to new vet, or do you think the association will follow and I’ll be better just taking him lots to be weighed etc where nothing traumatic happens? It’s the only time I’ve ever known him not be comfortable, he’s usually so confident so I’m a bit lost.
If you like and trust your vet then I would absolutely spend some time going there with it just being a positive thing. Not just being weighed and nothing worse, make it into an event! Take him there and get the vet or nurse to feed him a handful of roast chicken in the waiting room then leave. If it's local and you can do this a lot, and gradually move towards doing this in the consulting room, then it could well work. Meanwhile, I would work on handling with him at home. Teach him a position where the vet can do his examination. One idea is you kneeling down and having him standing, facing the same way as you, with your arm wrapped around him under his chest. Practice this being a super rewarding position for him to be in, and then introduce handling - you OH can stand in as the "vet" to start with, but try practicing with other people, too. Another good position is with him standing with his feet on you or on a table. This gives the vet free access to the whole of the body - again, you'd want to practice it in lots of situations and with lots of handling. The good thing about this position is you can use it like Chirag Patel's bucket game (https://www.animaltrainingacademy.com/podcast/training-tidbits/chirag-patel/) where the dog is given a choice as to whether he's happy to be handled or not. You can work on the handling to include mock injections. You can do this using a cocktail stick. By working on training Stanley behaviours that will help you to position him correctly in the vet surgery so he doesn't need to be physically moved into a position, it will help him to feel more empowered and in control whether you choose to stay with your existing vet or move elsewhere. We sadly can't entirely avoid unpleasant experiences in the vet surgery, but making the type of handling and place the place itself associated more with positives will allow our dogs to brush aside the negative events far more easily.
Betsy hates the vet's and it make me miserable to see her - so unlike Charlie who bounces in without a care. it's not associated with any particularly unpleasant experience for Betsy, Charlie has had many, many more unpleasant experiences at the vet's than Betsy ever has! I just think it's who they are - Charlie's enthusiasm for everything is undimmed by the unpleasantness of two cruciate surgeries and endless associated procedures, Betsy is scared because....well, to be honest, I'm not sure. She just is and that's that. Although normally quite a bold dog, she hates the vet's. And level crossings.... I do go in a fair bit with her, and she is now fine in the waiting room and getting weighed etc. but I don't get to go into the consulting rooms with her and that's the sticking point. I've only managed to work with a consulting room twice when they happened to be empty one lunchtime, and that's not enough to get her over it. So I ask for appointments at the end of the day, warn them that I'm going to have to take my time and I get her into the consulting room as best I can. It was a little better the last time than the times before, but not much. I do all that I can, but there is absolutely nothing I can find that replicates the consulting room at the vet's - she isn't fooled by working with other small spaces. She is no different at other vet places, she's the same wherever we go. So, I just do my best and then when it comes to it, sort of shrug and think 'there are bits of life that are unpleasant' get her through it as best I can, and shortly after she forgets all about it....
Plum is a bit like this @JenBainbridge. She was fine at every visit, including repeated visits where she had lots of stuff done to her eyes owing to repeated conjunctivitis. Then relatively recently I noticed she got spooked by a vet who weighed her. There was nothing I could note that the vet did, he was calm, gentle and quiet but she became very nervous on the machine and then in the consulting room. Next time I took her to get weighed she was very nervous but I managed to get her on the machine with treats. Yesterday she was due a vaccine and check up. She got weighed ok but didn't want to go in the consulting room. I managed it with laying a trail of sausage bits into the room (like Hansel and Gretal!). She remained nervous in the room but all was done that was needed. I have no words of wisdom, just wanted to say you're not alone. I am going to try a bit of what @snowbunny has suggested with visits outside of appointment times and treats on hand, whilst also acknowledging the wise advice of @JulieT and recognising it may not change.
With the weighing thing, mine all used to be hesitant with getting on the scales, even super confident Squidge. But I trained them boundaries with all sorts of different things - platforms, chairs, rocks, tree stumps, tables, man-hole covers etc, and the next time I went to the vet, I just used my boundary cue and they popped up. It removes that little bit of stress and, moreso, even gives them a bit of confidence. I think one factor is that we never behave in a normal manner in the vet office, either, so it gets very confusing for them. Giving them some simple behaviours that they enjoy and are confident with gives them a job to do and helps assuage that confusion a bit. One thing that is out of our control is the smell of the vet and that's very powerful. I'm sure it's a big factor in why it doesn't normally make it any better when you change surgeries. When I took Shadow to the vet in Spain for the first time, he walked through the door quite happily but then immediately became nervous. We hadn't even talked to anyone at that point, there were no other dogs and it looked completely different to our vet practice in Andorra. I can only put it down to the clinical smell mixed with the scent of other animals.
I think Fiona's absolutely right. If you have a good vet then stick with it and try to make vistis a positive thing. Our Gypsy hated the vet and we were too inexperienced to know what to do. She would crawl under the bench in the waiting room and go limp, so we had to drag her out from under the bench and manhandle 70lbs of floppy dog into the consulting room. It was very entertaining for everyone else! Two dogs later we've got into the habit of taking Holly in to be weighed when we're passing. We take her in when its quiet, the receptionist makes a fuss of her, we put her on the scales and give her treats, then we carry on with the walk. She now has no hangups about the vet.
You could try luring him with some food he likes into the consulting room wherever you decide to go. Distracting him in this way might work. Do you use ‘touch’ with him - another great distractior whilst the vet is examining etc. I always ask Red for a ‘middle’ when the vet is talking to me. It’s her safe place and I can focus on what the vet’s saying.
Poor Stanley being handled roughly, not nice or very professional of the vet I think we as owners don't help, immediately walk through the door thinking there is going to be a problem, dogs sense it. Also the nurses, vets and staff have a big influence and duty on how a consultation goes. Hattie is so happy to go in to the vets, any vets to be handled, poked and proded, needle aspirations without a single issue, she simply loves everyone and nothing phases her. Charlie used to be nervous, I think because when he was in a rescue foster home he had a few injuries, maybe something happened in that particular vets office. The vets we go to are great, they allowed us to pop in get treats from the receptionists, nurses and just sit quietly without weighing or any treatment. When he was nervous a few times they have a 'quiet' room right inside the front door which just has chairs and a window. We went in there once for a paw dressing and vaccinations and he was very calm, the vets always spend time stroking and making a big fuss, and of course treats. One time he refused to go inside the building so our vet came out to the carpark to check his wound Charlie now happily goes to the vets even after his awful accident when he had to go every week for 2 months. Of course he insists on giving the receptionist/vet a mandatory face wash! I hope your next trip is not stressful Jen. xx
Thanks everyone. It’s just really out of character for him because nothing else fazes him. I’ll definitely start popping in more, he’s completely fine in the waiting room. It’s just when we walk to the consulting room he starts to panic. It’s the only time I’ve never been able to lure him with treats. He just completely freezes, then flops and plays dead and I have to carry him like a baby. I’ve said I’m not seeing that particular vet anymore. He had eaten something (of course) and she wanted to give him an injection to stop the sickness but she obviously hurt him and after that he was squirming and crying. I asked if it was really necessary and she was like yes, absolutely. She asked me to pin him down and I point blank refused so she asked a vet nurse to come in and pin him because “mummy was useless”. By this point I was getting teary so I just spoke to him softly and stroked his ears but he was so upset. My poor angel All of the others have been lovely, and extra nice to him since he’s been frightened and I told them why. Hopefully, if I can build up some positive associations with just being fussed and treated then he might get a bit better. I’m sure they won’t mind, they’re all huge Stanley fans. One of them said he was the most beautiful Labrador she’s ever seen and I should sign him up for Doggy modelling and was showing me the website my little star!
My vet operates a system for nervous patients where owner reports to Reception and then waits in the car with the patient. They are then called in for their appointment and enter via the rear door and straight into a Consulting room. Seems to work reasonably well. Luckily I don't have that problem but a dog that heads straight for the scales and on Monday was having a snooze on my feet while discussing treatment options with the vet
When my dog has an injection I hold him and very strongly stroke his neck and head, he just doesn't notice the injection going in! Then a treat afterwards from the vet.
Tatze had a fear of the vets, no obvious reason. I couldn’t get her on the door. I changed vets and all is well, she’s had boosters and an op at the new vets - no problems at all. .
Yep - this is Betsy. She is now her completely normal self in the waiting room - flirting with other dogs and the receptionist and anyone that cares to notice her. She'll walk by the consulting room doors to the scales etc. but turn to go into the consulting rooms, and game over. She doesn't panic, but just freezes. She does this in the vet's in Cornwall, and in both vet's in London, and in a vet in Winchester we went to once. It is getting ever so slightly better, but very slowly. I'm sure I could solve it if I could work with the consulting rooms, but I can only do that when I have an actually appointment or during the week at lunchtimes.....and I work....and don't have endless time, much as I love my dog and would love to have it solved.... She was exactly the same with level crossings. But level crossings are easier to come by - there are plenty of them, and they are available 24/7.
Absolutely agree with this. Cassie's only had one dodgy consultation with a vet who bodged trimming her nails. It made me cross because she blamed Cassie but I didn't like her approach to her -- very loud and no skill at all. I do think that they should have good handling skills, Cassie is just about the friendliest confident Lab you could find, not like she needs help winning trust in people. But she sat with her head in the corner, all tucked up. But all the others and the nurses have been great with her, there was a slight hesitation the first post spay visit, but all fine now. I also agree though that sometimes unpleasant things have to happen in life, and all we can do is make things as good as possible. And we can't do anything about the smell. @JenBainbridge have you taught hand touch? I have found this to be really helpful for distracting her for injections and temperature taking etc.
The thing about training vet visit procedures is....if it's serious, and I mean very painful, you really need the opportunity to practice in the real environment. A lot. I had this with Charlie, over hundreds of vet visits - I trained my bucket games, my calm chin rest, and so on. And we look like pros in the vet's - seriously, we could do YouTube videos with the best of them showing how to have your dog stand stock still to have stitches removed after painful surgery..... However, if you don't intend to devote hundreds of hours to it (or have no choice but to devote hundreds of hours to it...)... I find Betsy more tricky. Betsy who has never experienced anything particularly serious at the vet's, and is just a wimp about the whole thing, but it's just not that serious to pour in the hundreds of hours into it.... Well, I do what is proportionate - and I do really do that, not just say I do it - and live with the results.
I think that’s what my concern is, we’ve been lucky that there’s never been anything major but if there was I’m worried he wouldn’t cope. He knows hand touch and middle but he sort of just is in flight mode. It doesn’t help that he can open doors so there’s been a couple of times when he’s opened the consulting room door and legged it back to reception.
he's a legend!! Quinn is the same...refuses to go into the consulting room and is in pure stress mode, hiding, licking lips and panting. We see a new vet in the practice (the eye flush and the next visit kennel cough spray is what did it with the previous vet) and slowly she is getting a bit better with this new vet, as she doesn't hold/force anything that Quinn is resisting and is much more gentle with her.
The first couple of times we took Snowie to a vet, to get Snowie to lie on his back, the vet lifted him up and lay him down on his back while Snowie was squirming and disoriented. It looked horrible and was horrible for the poor dog. I was angry with myself for being so intimidated by the situation that I didn’t object. I told myself I was my dog’s advocate and had to speak up. Next time it happened (we had a series of visits for itchy skin), I simply told the vet “No, don’t handle him like that, let me do it.” And I cued Down and Roll Over, and Snowie did it happily. Now, every vet visit, I take charge and stop any manhandling immediately. Although I must confess I’ve allowed them to take him away to get blood drawn - the vet says it’s much easier without the owner around. As I write this I’m feeling uncomfortable! Although it was very quick - Snowie had his annual blood tests done a few days ago - and he went off happily with the vet, and came back happily a few mins later. The vet has a large jar of treats and Snowie is very fixated on them. Even though he’s very easy - and the vet always comments how easy he is - I think he’s very stressed and fixates on the treats as his way to cope. My husband reckons he’s just greedy! @JenBainbridge re the vaccination, are you following the 3-year protocol? Perhaps you don’t need to put him through it this year?
If it's major and an emergency - well, there you are. It's an emergency. Hopefully he'll get over it. If it's major and not an emergency, then for a while you can devote your life to train for it - as I did. I'm not doing that again unless I know I have to do so for my dog's overall well being. If it's necessary, then I will, of course. Betsy - well, she gets a couple of vet visits a week as we pass the door on our walk, and I try to work on consulting rooms if I can, and give her an absolute stack of sardines when she has to go through the door for her appointments. I do work on her bucket games and so on too - not that they do me a lot of good without the chance to practice 'for real' but hopefully, over time, the more we go 'for real' they will get better. But I leave it at that, and still leave the vet's with a dog that is wagging her tail by the time we reach the door and thinking about where her next walk/treat is coming from.... You know, she's fine. Really. Not happy about the vet's, but still fine overall.
Thanks! You’re completely right. By the time he’s back in the waiting room he’s completely fine eyeing up the kong toys he wants to steal. I’ll just keep working on what I can and deal with anything else should it occur
