Maisie is having a huge fear phase. She went from a very fearless pup, albeit one very interested in noises/sounds, to a dog that startles at… well, an empty flower pot that wasn't even a new sight to her, it had just been knocked over in the wind so it was in a different position. These are all things I exposed her to as a puppy and she tolerated just fine. But she gets one scare on a walk and then EVERYTHING scares her for the remainder of the walk. She has gotten scared at - ??? something I can't hear/see/smell but she can - construction noises (when she was accustomed to walking through a construction zone every single day when little, complete with very noisy things) - a person who was washing his car because she didn't expect to see him - statues (I did miss this for socialization, but sometimes they'll bug her and sometimes they won't) - a person with a weed whacker/lawn mower (which, again, she was socialized to and used to be fine with) - the sound of kids playing basketball in the next lawn over (she couldn't see it but could hear it) - a car/bus noise (we walk next to busy roads on a regular basis) - aforementioned bucket being in the wrong place - police across the street surrounding someone's house (no idea what was going on but would prefer she didn't try barking at the police!) - many more things… It's not every day or every walk but she's definitely going through a phase. I don't really know what to do when she gets scared and I'm rubbish at helping her not be scared. SHe doesn't really care to be petted while she's on a walk, so even if I do that, it's not really that helpful to her. I talk to her in a normal voice, try to snap her out of it by asking for very simple tasks like a hand touch (if she's capable of that, sometimes she isn't), throw a treat for her to find to distract her, cross the street away from what's bothering her if she will refuse to move forward… I don't know if I'm making it worse or if we just have to soldier through it. Or if she is having an extreme fear reaction. She still likes most people (she was having a scared walk but still insisted on going into the bookstore to see her friend who works there and gives her treats and was greeting everyone in the bookstore, albeit a bit maniacally… running away when they tried to pet her, but again, she doesn't really let anyone pet her on a walk because she is all business, sniffing, peeing, or eating treats for nice walk behaviour) and she still likes dogs she sees. Any thoughts? Any idea how long this lasts? I would say it started maybe a month ago and has been fairly constant in maybe 1-2 days per week she is having these fits and starts at things. Oh and she is currently 6 months/25 weeks old.
Re: Fear phase I have always been a bit bemused by discussions of "second fear phases" - I've heard all sorts of conflicting statements about them. I always thought that you get a puppy, and you socialise as carefully as you can, in order to make sure that its early learning is that new things are not to be feared. Then, the puppy gets a little older and a self preservation instinct kicks in more strongly, and the puppy is more fearful of things (that's why early socialisation is so very important). You continue socialising a teenage dog, because if you don't, they desocialise rapidly. By "fear phase" I just understand people to mean that traumatic experiences are more lasting if they happen during this time. I have just assumed that to be a version of "early learning". Anything, positive or negative, learned while young is powerful. So, I think it is just a case of continuing a socialisation programme with a teenage dog. You just have to keep at it. Based on my understanding, it isn't something that she will grow out of but a matter of maintaining her socialisation to these types of things. I quite like Ian Dunbar on the risk of "desocialisation" in teenage dogs. His general point about teenage dogs makes sense to me - although it is critical to take advantage of the very early weeks when pups are learning what's scary and what is not, he also places a lot of emphasis on the work not being over at that point and structured socialisation must continue through adolescence and into adulthood or "desocialisation" may be alarmingly rapid. If you go to http://www.dogstardaily.com/ and create an account (it's free) and search "adolescent changes" you will find his take on this, and some stuff about what to look out for, and what you can do to help. I don't want to cut and paste for copyright etc.
Re: Fear phase Both of mine became extra jumpy/vigilant at about seven months old. I just made sure I gave no encouragement to this and had a 'come on, no problem here - no nonsense' attitude. It worked well and both dogs are now fine at 10 months and 2 years. Gypsy is bomb proof, but that's because she has been in very noisy, busy environments on a daily basis since she was 7 weeks old
Re: Fear phase We went through this at about 6 months. Suddenly barking at people, dogs, growling at things I couldn't hear or see, etc, etc. I realised that we had been doing the same daily walks, with the same people on a regular basis, so anything new in those surroundings became a problem. So I re-socialised her like I did when I first had her, and she got over the phase. Now at 13 months we seem to be going through a similar phase again, not as bad though, so I do as Mags said, and say "come on, all ok, let's go" or something like that!
Re: Fear phase I'm with Debs and Boogie, when Juno jumps at a noise - usually a bird in a bush I take a no nonsense approach. We stop, look and then walk on. Juno also sometimes does a whine, usually at cows in a field, but again the same approach, stop, look and move on. I don't pet her or offer a treat as I think that might start re-enforcing the behaviour.
Re: Fear phase Hmmm, seems like a lot of pups go through this but no real consensus on what it is really. What's weird is that we could take the same walk 2 days in a row, with probably the same amount of things that *could* be scary, and yet the first day she will just look very carefully at the leaf blower and then move on without any barking or cowering, yet the next day she could walk past the *exact same* leaf blower and be frightened out of her wits. So it doesn't seem to be a case of her not being socialized/exposed to these things… it's just that one day they're scary, and the next, they aren't, and then the day after that, scary again! No real pattern. We've actually kicked up the amount of area we cover since we keep adding time to walks as she gets older… and in newer territory she is actually more confident because she's obsessed with sniffing and looking at all the new stuff (still working on new walk manners, they're improving). Today I was just determined not to indulge any fear so if she was a bit afraid of something I just said "move it!" (this sounds like a rude command but for some reason she actually quite likes it and will move to this command better than the old lets go command, so I use it instead now) and she gets her treat for getting her butt going and it seems to be going okay. So maybe I just need to have more confidence and be a bit more "on our way, nothing to see here" as you have suggested. I will see how it goes. Hopefully she will either grow out of it or realize there is nothing to fear the more we keep going like nothing is happening.
Re: Fear phase [quote author=maisiesmomma link=topic=10618.msg157429#msg157429 date=1429387615] yet the next day she could walk past the *exact same* leaf blower and be frightened out of her wits. So it doesn't seem to be a case of her not being socialized/exposed to these things… it's just that one day they're scary, and the next, they aren't, and then the day after that, scary again! No real pattern. [/quote] It sounds unlikely, to me, to be honest. There probably is a difference to her, even if it's just how she is feeling. If she is just spooky at the odd thing, then maybe she'll just get over it. But if she is really scared (and your original post suggests she is - you referred to it as an "extreme fear reaction" and now say she is "frightened out of her wits") then a jolly hockey sticks approach might just not cut it, and a more systematic plan might be in order....
Re: Fear phase I'm having good results with a "look at that!" approach for Willow. She doesn't have the extreme fear you're talking about, but working on "look at that!" with anything she's a bit unsure of seems to be helping to build more trust in me. The concept is explained well in the book Control Unleashed - essentially when she looks at something that could be a trigger, I C&T immediately. Over time, she learns that looking at "that" is rewarding, rather than scary or something to react to. She starts looking at me when she sees something she's unsure of, letting me know she's seen it but trusting me to make the decision as to whether it's OK or not. We're not perfect yet, but the technique is really working for us. The last time she reacted this way was with kids in a bar (she doesn't like kids at all), so I used them (unbeknownst to them!) as a training aid getting her used to using the "look at that!" technique with children as well. It needs proofing just like anything else. I'm not sure if it would work with an extreme fear reaction, though. With Shadow, he was extremely scared of buses and lorries when we first had him. We just had to work on his fears by slowly increasing his exposure to them. It was difficult with these because I couldn't guarantee a big vehicle wouldn't pass us when we were walking down the street, so I had to become a lot more observant and, when I saw one coming, try to set him up for success by turning him so he could see it coming from a distance, getting as far back away from the road as possible and talking calmly to him as it went past. Again, I think simply working on trust with him helped massively and now he does trust me to not put him in dangerous situations. Last week, we managed to sit on a short wall and do some training while a recycling lorry stopped a few metres from us and emptied glass bottles recycling bins into the truck. He was a little nervous when the bottles tipped, but he carried on with the simple tasks I was asking him to do (hand targeting etc) and kept happy body language in a situation that would have terrified him a few short months ago. I don't know if that is any help whatsoever! It does sound strange that she would find an object scary one day, ok the next and scary again the next, so I think you need to look closely at the context to see if there's another trigger there. It could be anything, like Julie says, and might be difficult to spot. Maybe the blower was facing a different way, maybe she came across it more suddenly, maybe the wind was blowing, maybe there were strange shadows, maybe another animal had scent-marked it, maybe there was a noise in the distance at the same time she saw it .... dogs are so perceptive that they put together things that we don't even notice to build their whole picture.
Re: Fear phase She has only been extremely frightened twice, by construction noises (I *think*) both times. She has been exposed to construction on a regular basis since she was 10 weeks old (they were re-doing a road near our house). She also made friends with the construction sign ladies and construction workers so she likes construction people. Just a construction noise will sometimes set her off and then everything scares her the rest of the walk (but not to the same extent). That has occurred twice in about 1-2 months, so not really a regular occurrence. And really nothing has matched that first time she was quite scared. The "average" level of scare is more avoidance - doesn't want to go near something she considers scary, or staring at the object she considers scary. Things that startle her may make her jump and then investigate/look at the scary thing. I tried the "look at that" technique today with something that scared her, when she looked at it or went closer I marked it with a yes and gave her a treat. She seemed interested in what I was doing. I kept doing it until she seemed done with the thing (still a bit scared but only displaying avoidance rather than any barking/cowering/tail or ears lowered). So that will be interesting to try. She is trained to look at me when she sees "exciting" things (dogs, kids, people she wants to greet) so she should pick this up if I do it consistently, and perhaps interacting with the scary thing in a structured manner will help.
Re: Fear phase Just thought I would update and share what is working as we make some progress with this: I have been able to avoid having a full "scared walk" - where she was getting quite scared by something at the start of the walk and then was very scared of everything after that. Now she can be quite frightened by something (although she is not showing an extreme fear reaction very much anymore, maybe once since I last posted this) at the start of the walk, but "snap out of it". What is helping to "snap out of" a scared mood is a lot of distraction. My favourite is doing a bit of "find it" with treats as we walk. I throw a treat a few feet in front of us and get her to find it. This gets her focused on searching for the treat and sniffing it out and helps her "shake off" her fear reaction so she walks normally/happily. This doesn't work for sounds, etc, but if she is afraid of something on the ground, I go up to it and touch it, step on it, etc (if possible) to show her that *I* am not afraid of it. This often prompts her to approach it and I treat for approaching all scary things to show her that is a positive thing. This has very much helped. We passed a traffic cone on one walk (abandoned on the sidewalk). I stepped all over it, touched it, etc, and she investigated. Now we can walk past it without a care in the world. Finally I have just started what my trainer suggested, counterconditioning, which is feeding her treats every time she hears/sees something scary. I try to anticipate it as much as possible before the scare reaction (i.e. a large bus or truck is going by and might make a big noise, I get the treat ready to hand her as the bus goes by) but also during the scare reaction. I know people say don't do this as it is "rewarding" her reaction, but I don't really think so - what it seems to be doing is creating a bit of a "turn to me for a treat" response when she sees something potentially scary. She already has a "look at me for a treat" response when approaching other dogs/people she finds interesting, or birds, etc, so this seems to be working for her as an extension to that. We have done this for just 2-3 walks so far and I can already see a difference from this. This also helps break up the "continually scared" walk into a more confident walk in between things that might frighten her. Her fear response also seems to be lessening with this. Hope any of this is helpful to others struggling with fear.
Re: Fear phase Pleased to hear that you've made such good progress with helping Massie overcome her sudden fears when out walking. Hopefully over the coming weeks there will be less and less fear responses and you and Massie sill be able to enjoy hour walk more ;D
Re: Fear phase Sounds good to me. Poppy had a frightful stage of woofing at strangers on walks - we countered it by having her walk to heel past all strangers, and giving her a treat for keeping her attention on us, which worked well. She is the greediest dog I know, though ;D
