Today was our first puppy class. We travelled almost an hour because I wanted the 'right' class and when we got there the lady was surprised to see us - apparently the class was moved back 2 weeks so we weren't meant to be there! There was the final lesson of the previous course on, however, so she said to stay and join in. The dogs were supposed to be introduced one at a time to the environment where they train to help them settle and we missed that due to this mistake and were straight in there. Tess, predictably, was SO excited. She dribbled wee a lot, strained on her lead (thankfully she had her harness on) and ignored even the sardine Kongs I took! The lady promoted the use of clickers but I felt like we weren't taking things step by step like we do at home and I just didn't feel completely comfortable. A couple of examples, for not jumping up we had to tie the dogs to hooks around the room and walk up to them (first our own dog and then others), turn around and ignore them if they jumped up and give them a treat when they didn't. I didn't like to see Tess straining so much on her lead. For 'leave it' we had to walk up to a 'poisonous biscuit' and hold them back, click and reward the moment they back off. This hurt my arm as Tess was basically lunging forwards after the treat and I was holding her back! The lady used her as an example and she wouldn't click until Tess had both backed off and turned around and started to move back towards her - at home I would take this in baby steps and not expect everything at once! Am I being overly sensitive? She asked me what food I give Tess as perhaps that's what makes her so excited ... but there were 5 strange dogs and 5 strange people (ALL potential friends to her!!) in an enclosed environment. She's nowhere near that excited usually even when she is excited! There's another dog school fairly close to me which I had dismissed initially, partly because the set up is that the dogs play first, then they train, then they play, then they walk together - and I thought it might be too much for my Miss Sociable. However, I'm now wondering whether that's a more realistic situation. The classes are outside so meeting other dogs and playing, then having to focus on me for a while, then being allowed to play again, is something which might happen regularly in 'real' life but meeting 5 new dogs and owners inside on a lead in an enclosed space is less likely. Thoughts on this please? Perhaps I should just try this other school next Saturday and see how we feel after that. We have worked so hard on 'capturing calm' over the past few days, clicker training not jumping up etc. and I feel like it might have all been undone! The lady said she would just ignore Tess if she jumped up at her, which in practice meant she walked around the room with Tess jumping up at her the entire time! I'm off to pour a glass of wine ...
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! To be honest, if you feel uncomfortable about anything directly concerning your dog, then its not the right thing for your dog, or you either . I would say to try the other class, but in truth, many pups find these classes far too much to cope with , their excitement goes into overdrive , training being pointless at this stage ! Its often better to meet other dogs on walks and leave training until the silliness is improved , in a class I mean and just train alone when you have full attention and do the socialisation on walks . Some pups settle well to classes, others, like my own dog, got nothing from it at all , good luck with the other class
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! That's my instinct Kate, I feel like we're doing ok as we are! Tess does meet other dogs on walks, not loads, and some she doesn't get to say hello to but I feel that's good for her. I'm glad to hear puppy classes don't always suit because I suspect that we will fall in to that camp. We train at home, on walks locally where it's usually fairly quiet, in town on Saturday mornings where it's busy (which is challenging and which I dread but I know we must do it!) and on family days out all over the place. I suppose I feel that puppy classes are something I must do if I want a well trained dog .. but perhaps not!
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Sounds like Tess is coming along quite nicely just as she is
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! [quote author=zanacal link=topic=10727.msg159271#msg159271 date=1429985191]I suppose I feel that puppy classes are something I must do if I want a well trained dog .. but perhaps not! [/quote] There are no such things as puppy classes here, so it's not something my two have experienced, and I think their training is coming along just fine without
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! All our puppy classes have been outside in a woodland setting, and it's been great. Lots of distractions, cyclists, joggers, kids, horses, etc. Lots of play, training, and socialisation. I'd highly recommend it.
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Ah bless you,that was absolutely going to go the way it did.....how could Tess not be stratospheric with excitement going into that environment ,it would be too much for any young dog. I haven't got a great selection of classes to choose from here ( Dubai) And to be honest my first lot were a waste of time from a results point of view .....but I took away what I was shown and practiced away from all the shenanighans and then when we were a little less embarassing I went back for a second lot of classes to,practice around dogs and they were much more productive.Go with your instinct and there's so much help and advice you can seek on here if you go it alone x Enjoy that wine,you just be shattered,2 hour round trip and all the adrenaline from the class?have 2 glasses ......at least
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Thanks all, I've had two glasses of wine AND a chinese take away (and have completely forgotten that I'm doing Slimming World!). Debs, your classes sound wonderful I think I may try this outdoor class but if I come away with the same feeling then we'll wait until she's more mature and we want to do more or learn something new. The actual things they train at puppy classes (sit/down/stay/recall/leave it) are things we already have covered at home and I will proof over time.
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! This sounds very familiar!!! I persevered with the puppy classes, but to be honest I am not sure we got that much from them. Phoebe found it all too exciting and didn't really calm or focus at all and I just found it very stressful worrying about who she was going to jump on next!! We haven't done any more classes since. Phoebe is 7 months now and I'm thinking of now booking a few one to one sessions to see where we can take our training to next, but I'm avoiding group classes still for a while!
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! What a shame but hope you are feeling less stressed after the wine I was lucky with the classes I went to with Hattie when she was about 4 months old, she is now 7 years old. There were only 6 puppies maximum all on lead, we did meet and greet, recall, on lead walking round the puppies a bit of clicker information, sits, waits, downs etc. It was a 6 week course, my daughter and I enjoyed it so much we progressed to obedience classes for 18 months. I think they vary so much and choosing one can be difficult. Could you go along to the other class without Tess to see how it's run then at least you will know before you pay any money and put yourself under more stress? Hope you are OK. x
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! The one we went to today is one where you pay for the whole course up front but I think I can get out of it with the change of dates - I genuinely can't make one of the new dates as I'm going away for the night. The local outdoor class is pay as you go so there's no commitment I'm ok, I'm about to attempt to have Tess settle in the living room with the whole family, wish me luck!!
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! [quote author=kateincornwall link=topic=10727.msg159270#msg159270 date=1429984797] To be honest, if you feel uncomfortable about anything directly concerning your dog, then its not the right thing for your dog, or you either . I would say to try the other class, but in truth, many pups find these classes far too much to cope with , their excitement goes into overdrive , training being pointless at this stage ! Its often better to meet other dogs on walks and leave training until the silliness is improved , in a class I mean and just train alone when you have full attention and do the socialisation on walks . Some pups settle well to classes, others, like my own dog, got nothing from it at all , good luck with the other class [/quote] I completely agree with this. It's exactly what I found with Bonnie. She was just too excited when she was 4 months (time of our first class); she was much more responsive to individual training with me than in an over-stimulating environment. I agree it's pointless if they're too excited. B was much easier to train and attend classes at 6 months. I think we're so often advised to get everything into them before 16 weeks we don't allow for the fact a little bit of maturity, or settled-ness, can have a massive effect. I'd say, concentrate on building the bond between you and Tess, which you're doing so nicely anyway, so that if you go to a class later she's used to focusing on you. You seem to have a great instinct for how quickly or slowly you can introduce new ideas to her and I'm sure you're right about the class. Outdoor classes sound great and, as you say, more befitting scenarios she'll encounter naturally. The world just becomes a little less exciting to them, even in the space of a couple of months, so don't worry too much if you feel she's not making much progress yet. She will and more importantly, she already is! Have a lovely settled evening you guys! It sounds to me like you're doing just fine! 8)
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! I'd strongly recommend an outdoor puppy class. Not an indoor puppy class. You need to be able to get a bit of distance at times, or go off and have a little wander as a break. At our dog club pups start classes from 12 weeks and, with the right step-by-step approach all can learn to improve their concentration and skills (for some pups this might just mean being able to sit 5m from the class without barking hysterically, and that is a great achievement for some). If you set expectations to suit your dog, have a good trainer and enough space group classes are an excellent addition to a training regime, at any age. Zanacal it does sound like too much was expected in that first class. I'd give the outdoor class a go - I hope it turns out to be more enjoyable
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Trust your instinct with the classes. If it doesn't feel right it isn't right for you. I would try the outside class though as I sounds a good mix and personally I think the socialisation side and play is more important than formal training of sit/stay etc that we all work on from day 1 anyway. My trainer here in France doesn't do puppy classes, all lessons are one on one and are based around what you want to work on so most of ours were based around walking in and around town and having different experiences together with a period of off lead free running time. Together with a weekly "ballade educative" Juno has had the opportunity to run and play in various scenarios with a range of dogs (mastiffs to poodles) and of all ages.
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! It's very, very, very, very, very normal for them to be excited - especially Labs! You should see our Guide Dog puppy classes, the first ten minutes are complete mayhem until the dogs get into it! And these are pups which have been going to class weekly from 8 weeks old. I would also say trust your instincts and go to a class which you BOTH enjoy.
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Thanks all. I'm going to email the lady who runs the outside classes and ask her advice on how to handle the over excitement. I'm not sure I will like her approach so her response will help me to decide whether I will actually go or not!
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! I took Pongo to puppy classes when he was about 12 weeks old. I absolutely hated it for exactly the reasons you describe. I gave up after five weeks. I've always felt I let him down a bit by pulling out, but I just couldn't stand seeing him so stressed and over-excited for apparently no benefit at all. Now he is a year old we have started going to agility classes - just for fun. He really enjoys these, although is still wildly over-excited at seeing other dogs. But after four classes he has started to behave better, and I am sure that he is learning more about good behaviour at these classes than he ever did at the other puppy classes. And he gets to run through tunnels very very fast, too! ;D Rosie
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Puppy classes really do seem to be such a minefield! Have a clear mind what you are looking to get out of them. There seem to be the very serious sort with dogs on leads all times, no play breaks or socialization. This tends to be the way with KC or APDT accredited trainers. "they're here to learn not play, they must learn to concentrate around other dogs" OK - Fine. And I'm not in a position to discount those credentials. But I felt so sorry for the guy in the park who asked if his pup could play with Gemma. "aren't you going to puppy class?" "yes, but they don't allow play. he's not had much chance to play with other dogs". So that oh-so-serious training is coming at what cost? For us, puppy class was the first environment where Gemma could meet other dogs off-lead in a secure location. And the not so serious sort, which are a mix of training and and play "young puppies have a short attention span and it's easy to tire their little brains, a full hour is too much they need breaks to unwind" "you have to let dogs learn how to be dogs, let them off for a play now" And yes, indoor or outdoor is another differentiator. Ourdoors better because you're working in the real world, not a town hall which you'll never see again after the class. BUT outdoors actually proved to be a total pain for us! Gemma was still going through the phase of putting everything in her mouth, stones, twigs etc. She grew out of that like most to, but at her age for puppy class, outdoors was a nightmare! She was constantly finding rubbish to chew on. Bear in mind you're only going to learn the basics at puppy class, most of which we were already well along the road with before class started. Any half decent book will cover basic training like that. I wanted a less formal, play allowed class because our socialization window was closing. Socialization you can't replace, but training can always be caught up on. Perhaps in an ideal world the answer is to join two! One more informal that includes socialization and one that is obedience focused with no play. We went for a class that was a mix of play and training. It allowed me to practical recalling her away from play, in a secure environment, and I'm convinced that set us up well for life! Don't be disheartened zanacal, I think an awful lot of puppy classes are "meh". I wouldn't take it personally, they are what they are. Gemma was also a handful of excitability at puppy class. I'm sure she learns better on a 1-2-1 basis, so we went down that road instead afterward. A couple of other labs came along to the class we used, and guess what? They were no different. Of course they're going to be excited. I mean for us, we started puppy class as soon as the vaccinations completed, the same week Gemma had started to explore the big wide world outside of the home. That's a lot of new sights, sounds, smells to bombard their senses with! Why wouldn't a highly social, curious and confident Labrador NOT find this exciting? I'd be more worried if they weren't! Regarding the excitability, well we covered some of that with a 1-2-1 trainer. It was suggested that we implement a "reward for calm behaviour" regime. We made sure good things (life rewards) only happened when she was calm : - All hyped up because the lead has come out and we're going walkies - nope, no good. Wait until she has switched off/given up/calmed down before clipping the lead on. (plus it's terrible for lead discipline to set off with an excited dog) - Excited that meal time is coming. Nope, you'll get your bowl when you've calmed down and are sitting nicely for it - Excited (with pulling) because we're approaching the park entrance? Ooops, we'll carry on straight past then and try again in a couple of minutes. - Excitement around visitors. Nope, we have to instruct all visitors to blank her (I can't see a dog in here can you? ). When she's settled, then they get the OK to fuss her And also try teaching a calm down cue. This seems to take a very long time to train and sink in, but it's so easy just get on with it I would just catch her chilled out and mellow and resting, but not asleep, and out of the blue give her a treat and say "Good girl! Good Settle!". I'm assuming it takes a long time for the penny to drop because the dog is sat there thinking "what did I get that for? I wasn't doing anything?!" yes my darling! Around the house, it almost works like a Stop now when somethings put her into a silly mood. I was most impressed when we had visitors last, and she was running around their legs, I told her to Settle and she actually did! It doesn't work so well outdoors but we've never proofed it so that's understandable. This training plan came from a qualified behaviorist, so I assume there are no quick cheats here. It's all about the specific scenario and context. I'd be very grateful if you would share what you hear back. If you find a puppy class trainer who says they can deal with this, in a class environment, I absolutely must know how please ;D
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! Thank you I have been giving Tess a treat out of the blue when she's settled (and not thinking of treats!) for the past few days and I do think it's helping her to settle more around the house already I have always put her lead on long before we leave for a walk so she's calm when we go, I measure her food out when it's not meal time so the clatter of kibble doesn't mean she'll get to eat, she's never got away with pulling on the lead to get somewhere ... so we're good with all those things, but strange people in particular and strange dogs to a slightly lesser extent are want makes her adrenalin pump - and there are plenty of both at training classes!!
Re: Feeling 'meh' after our first puppy class! [quote author=zanacal link=topic=10727.msg159519#msg159519 date=1430075118] I have been giving Tess a treat out of the blue when she's settled (and not thinking of treats!) for the past few days and I do think it's helping her to settle more around the house already [/quote] Yes! As well as being able to associate a calm down cue, I have also suspected that being treated for being settled and quiet has also helped Gemma be comfortable and positive about doing nothing Especially so as she's from working lines and presumably its in her blood to to work long days in shooting season. [quote author=zanacal link=topic=10727.msg159519#msg159519 date=1430075118] I have always put her lead on long before we leave for a walk so she's calm when we go, I measure her food out when it's not meal time so the clatter of kibble doesn't mean she'll get to eat, she's never got away with pulling on the lead to get somewhere ... so we're good with all those things, but strange people in particular and strange dogs to a slightly lesser extent are want makes her adrenalin pump - and there are plenty of both at training classes!! [/quote] Sounds to me like you're already on the path to success Great tactic regarding the kibble! I don't think you're alone. In fact I'm certain I read a thread on here last year about someone who was ejected from puppy class because their Labrador was too boisterous! I think a lot of Labs are, and that was nothing but an ignorant trainer. Even with a huge investment in training, Gemma's weaknesses have always been other dogs and people, this got in the way of everything, and often caused her training to fall apart. But with patience, consistency, a LOT of time, and perhaps as she's maturing (1.5yrs) we managed to turn things around by the start of the year. We can now successfully pass other people and dogs on the lead, as her training to look at me, not the distraction, has kicked in. Yet, I have no doubt in a class environment she'd be an uncontrollable mess!
