Finish left

Discussion in 'Obedience' started by Emily, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Emily

    Emily Supporting Member Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I'm really struggling with the 'finish left' cue. It's the one where the dog is sitting directly in front (after a recall) and you as then to return to heel on your left hand side. The 'finish right' (dog returns to heel to the right and around the back of you) was really easy to lure so was easy to train but I'm having a lot of trouble doing 'finish left' and poor Ella is getting confused.

    Any tips or tricks?
     
  2. snowbunny

    snowbunny Administrator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    12,932
    Location:
    Andorra and Spain
    I would train it separately to the front sit for now. With W&S last summer, I really hammered their straight sit at heel, as an individual exercise, and they were rewarded very well for it, so love to sit there now. Then I started to generalise the movement into it, by calling them into a sit at heel with them behind me to start (so, my back is to them and they just run in a straight line to sit in position), then changing the angles until they were running towards me from the front and spinning round. OK, so sometimes there was a flyball turn on my stomach to end in position, but you have to love enthusiasm, right? ;)
    All the time on walks, I would call them from various places into that sit at heel and reinforced, reinforced, reinforced. Once that was very strong, it was a piece of cake calling them to heel from the sit in front. Shadow leaps and spins in the air :rolleyes:
     
    Emily likes this.
  3. Emily

    Emily Supporting Member Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hmm... I like your way. Sounds kind of fun too :D:D

    The only thing I'm nervous of is that Ella might begin to default to the heel position on recall, rather than the straight sit in front. Did you experience this at all?

    Also, while I'm picking your brain, when you say
    Are you using a different cue to your recall?

    Thanks, as always :)
     
  4. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,633
    If you use 'come' the dog should sit in front, if you say 'heel' the dog should sit at heel. If the dog is sitting in front and you want it to come to heel left, then a slight nod of the head in that direction, or a bend in your body to begin with, will indicate to the dog which side you want it to finish on. That is of course, once the behaviour has been trained :)
     
    Emily likes this.
  5. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    11,335
    Location:
    Dubai
    Ah Emily ,I'm not the best help and I don't know how acceptable my method is for obedience but I use a hand signal.Dexter will default to a straight sit in front on a recall ,if I need to position him there I use my flat hand pointing down as if I'm covering my treat bag and he goes to the front.If I want him in heel ,I tap my left thigh and he goes there in a leap....he needs 2 taps sometimes as he's a bit sloppy on his first leap ,second tap or a delayed reward gets me a shuffle into good position !
     
  6. Emily

    Emily Supporting Member Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yep, that's what we've been working on :)

    We have actually used a hand signal to indicate the direction of the finish but essentially the same thing.

    My issue is, at this stage, a hand signal right is fine as Ella returns to heel properly. A hand signal left is useless as Ella does understand yet. When I try to lure her to heel from front to left, we get kind of stuck and her head is at heel but her but ends at a right angle.

    @snowbunny has a good suggestion but I'm wondering if I should put the "come to heel from any random location" on a different cue to my usual "heel"?
     
  7. Emily

    Emily Supporting Member Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    It's not quite the same hand signal (but that's not an issue) but I can't get Ella to realise that's what I'm asking for.
     
  8. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    11,335
    Location:
    Dubai
    I guess mine came from drilling and drilling heel ....and I mean drilling and drilling !!!!!!Dexter was (is) a terrible puller ....we needed to practice! Do you use a clicker? Whilst you are trying to teach her the position would it help to stand against a wall so she's only got the choice of front or left? You could lure her In then ? In the days when I was training 'Back' and optimisticallly hoped to get Dexter to turn on the hand I pushed him back on,I used to sit him against a wall so he only had the choice to turn one way ......I didn't spend enough time on it to get that but it may have worked?
     
  9. snowbunny

    snowbunny Administrator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    12,932
    Location:
    Andorra and Spain
    I use "heel" or a finger down by my side if I want them to come to my heel position. "Front" or two bunched fists in front if I want them to it in front of me. I'll either use the visual cue in tandem with my whistle recall, or, if the dog is close enough, just the verbal cue. My recall doesn't have a formal sit on the end, it just means "come over here and then I'll tell you what to do next". So, if yours means "come here and sit in front", then I would just use a different cue for "come here and sit by my side".

    I don't think there's any necessity to, unless any part of what you're asking for conflicts with what you already have. My dogs understand that "heel" means "walk by my side when I'm walking" but it also means "sit by my side when I'm standing" and "come running to me and either walk with me or sit by my side" if the dog starts at a distance. These don't conflict; the cue is made up of the verbal/visual part and also the context.

    But, where your recall means "some and sit in front", if you recalled and gave your cue to sit at heel, it puts the dog in a state of conflict, because you're asking her to do two different things at the same time - both sit in front and sit by your side.
     
  10. Emily

    Emily Supporting Member Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I'm not sure how you did it Fiona, but you managed to put my jumbled thoughts into some sort of sense :D

    Yep, 'come' means come to me, sit in front and wait for the next cue so I won't worry about messing with that.

    You're right, 'heel' does have multiple uses so I doubt that adding "come to heel from a random location" will affect its meaning.

    Thanks for the help, looking forward to getting started :)
     
  11. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    2,911
    You could try using a place-board for Ella's front feet while she's facing you (in stand) and luring her to pivot into heel. Then gradually drop lure and place-board and introduce cue word or signal.
     
  12. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,633
    I was actually answering your question as to how the dog will know it is heel or come :) When teaching mine the left sit, I had them sitting in front (one!) , lure in hand which then does a left semi-circle and step back with your left leg, dog should then be on your left leg, draw left leg to right leg and reward. Gradually the dog realises what it means and you can then stop the left leg back.
     
  13. Beanwood

    Beanwood Moderator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,244
    This is how I taught Bramble to sit at heel. I dropped the leg going back and added a hand signal. For Bramble "heel" means sit close to my side, and just in front of me "walk" means walk in a heel position. Verbal "come" means come back as you please, whistle recall come back NOW...I also have a hand signal which means " speed up now" Which is used when I need a fast return with a dummy. So when I am whistle recalling, she is watching to see where I want her on the recall. My body posture gives her a lot of information.
     
    Stacia likes this.
  14. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,991
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    When we first stared to teach it, we call it SWING, we stepped back one or two steps, then forward and at the same time waving our left hand in the direction the dog was walking, first back, then forward. Gradually step back fewer and shorter steps. I should note we did not assign the name SWING till the dog understood the hand movement. Then on a recall, COME, we could expect a FRONT (square sit in front) or direct the dog with hand signal or verbal or both when learning the verbat to either SWING or CIRCLE. Most folks I know say AROUND instead of circle but my Jet thought it sounded like DOWN (which it does) so I say circle.

    Even though we did use a separate word for how we wanted the dog to end up in heel we were cautioned to not make too many swings or circles out of a recall. I guess they like to go back to heel because it's from there that they get to move on forward and do something else that's fun so they like to get into heel soon.
     
  15. Emily

    Emily Supporting Member Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Eek, that's exactly what I've been trying to do. Good to know I'm on the right track but I guess my luring technique needs work!

    I can't seem to step back far enough to get her to swing all the way round.

    Oh well, now I know I'm (sort of) doing the right thing, I guess we just keep trying!
     
    Stacia likes this.
  16. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    10,553
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    I taught this years ago, with Hattie sat infront of me, lure in a semi-circle until she was butted up against my left, treat heavily. I didn't move at all but you could once you get the lure technique nailed. Eventually I added the cue "finish", to this day you only have to say "finish" and she's there wedged up against my leg :)
     

Share This Page