Well, took Cosmo to his first puppy socialisation/training class today. Blimey, it was bedlam! About ten puppies in all, all desperate to jump on each other and play but of course, we had to hold them on the lead and keep them civilised! Cosmo would NOT do the 'down' command at all so the guy who runs it (ex Essex Police dog handler) came over and showed a sort of 'offer treat and gently sweep his foot down and support him down to the floor' manoeuvre. Poor old Cossie wee'd, think he was a bit scared of him :-\. As the class went on he started really barking, lunging and growling for a big old Vizsla pup next to us , the trainer instructed me to sweep Cosmo into the 'down' position, hold him there for a second and then 'good dog' and up. I was disappointed that he was behaving like that and wonder if he was just a bit overstimulated . Any thoughts, am I worrying too much that he's being a bit aggressive?
Re: First training class today...... Hhmmm tricky.... I think I'd be more inclined to take Cosmo away from the class to settle before returning and rewarding calm behaviour. If you start manhandling him I think it just sets things up to be a physical tussle all the time which isn't a challenge when he's little but you don't want to be wrestling him when he's grown. Personally I think it's more constructive(and pleasurable for all concerned) to show them what you want them to do and reward that rather than use old fashioned dominance which can have a negative effect on your dog. I'm a million miles from being experienced I just know I want our learning to be a positive experience ;D Good luck with your next class and however you want to approach it it's your dog and your money!
Re: First training class today...... To be honest, I feel the same way, I didn't envisage doing any wrestling moves on him, I don't want to go down the 'Cesar Milano' or whatever his name is route......I don't want to dominate my dog :-\.
Re: First training class today...... I agree with Barbara , it just doesnt sound right to me and I detest any form of man handling a pup or dog , I would give it a miss if it were me and either look for another class or take him out and about with someone else with a dog, preferably a nice calm one
Re: First training class today...... I agree with Barbara. I think that you are also right when you say that Cosmo was a bit scared (hence the weeing). A pup or dog that is worried is going to be very reluctant to lie down. To teach the down the best thing would have been not to push it in class, but to practise at home where he feels more confident, gradually building up to doing it in class. There really is no need to physically position a dog to teach any exercise - it can all be done with luring and shaping. Dogs have an 'oppositional reflex', meaning that if you push on them they push back (as opposed to a horse which will tend to move away from pressure). It you push to get a dog to achieve a position it will actively resist and so in fact you are teaching the dog to avoid adopting the position you want. I'm not sure of exactly the manouvre the trainer used (pushing Cosmo's front legs from under him?) but it doesn't sound as if it focused Cosmo's mind on learning. Cosmo wasn't being aggressive. I'd say that it was a combination of over-stimulation, uncertainty and a frustrated desire to interact with the other puppies. In that situation I'd be working on teaching a behaviour that is incompatible with barking and pulling - like just sitting and looking at you for treats. You might need to put a bit of distance between you and any dogs that Cosmo finds particularly distracting and use really good treats to lure (and then reward) his gaze on you. Put a bit of roast chicken on front of his nose, draw it up to between your eyes, then, the second he looks in your eyes, mark and reward. Once he's got the idea you can add a word (e.g. 'watch') that becomes your cue to him to look at you. Say your word as you bring the food up towards your eyes, then mark, then reward. Have you read about things like marker words, rewards, luring, intermittent reinforcement and shaping?
Re: First training class today...... Thanks guys, yep, I feel uneasy about it......I registered for the classes as it said it was all for kind, reward based training, but as you say, the hands on (especially the response to the barking/lunging behaviour) aspect isn't what I signed up for......I do know really that he's not aggressive, he's been fab with other dogs both off lead and on whilst on walks, just threw me I guess. Ultimately, theres's too many puppies, too much noise and it was a a bit full on :-\. He's exhausted, been asleep since we got back. I'll look into what you've suggested there Rachael, always eager to learn and god, I need to learn!
Re: First training class today...... It doesn't sound the best...I thought the indoor, lots of puppies together, training classes weren't great. My dog is super keen to get to other dogs, and as a young pup I found 1 hour indoors surrounded by other puppies trying to keep his attention on me was just too long - it would still be too long now, when he is 7 months. That said, we managed to pick up the basics...I searched and searched for outdoor classes but didn't find any.
Re: First training class today...... Yep, absolutely the same.....Cos just wanted to play with the others, he started whining as if to say 'take me home....please.....' near the end. Think I might go next week but if I/we come away feeling like this again, I'll knock it on the head. The whole point is to have fun......and fun it certainly was not! :-\
Re: First training class today...... Oh,gosh ,sounds a bit dreadful,if you aren't experienced that must have been overwhelming for you both,it would have been for me....my first round of obedience classes were a trial but for different reasons.I persevered because training resources are so few here. I totally agree with Julie,an hour is exhausting for puppy and owner.we started again a couple of weeks ago in a class with just 4 dogs......straight away that is better but Dexter was still knackered after an hour ......and I was ready for wine
Re: First training class today...... Lol, I'm massively inexperienced! Tbh, I was doing it more for the socialisation side of things for now rather than turning him into some super duper trained doglet but he has more valuable social interaction when we take him to the park/woods next to our house! I tell you what, had it been an evening session, I would definitely have had to procure some wine, I had to hit the headache tablets as it was!!
Re: First training class today...... It can be really hard when you're not very experienced to say no to someone who is or tell them you want to do it differently or that your pup needs a break but you are well within your rights and if the trainer is any good they'll work with you or explain to your satisfaction why to do it their way. It was a revelation to me when, in our class, an experienced trainer with a young dog said 'she's a bit flat, I think she's had enough I'll just pop her in the car' which she did and came back to watch the rest of the class. The class trainer didn't even blink - it was perfectly ok not to push the dog and lose the benefit of the work done so far. In an ideal world your experience trainer would help you spot these things but if in doubt trust yourself - you know your dog. You could even suggest an alternative course of action e.g. 'I think he's just over stimulated shall I just take him away for two minutes to calm down?' and see what they say. Just my musings on getting the best out of a class.....
