Need to book some training sessions and get back on it with Bob. Today was just awful. I dunno what came over him usually he's OK, he'll wander a bit far, but he always comes back. Today we let him off and it was like a scent caught his nose and he was off! There were no other dogs around at all, but he was zooming around all over the place, literally sprinting everywhere. Head down, totally lost in his own little world of the 'smell'. He didn't actually come back to me, but I caught up with him when he was having a really good sniff at something and I just grabbed his collar. Dropped a load of treat on the floor so I was still a positive experience for him. He just ignored the treats completely. He was foaming at the mouth, making all sorts of strange grunting noises. Bitch in heat smell maybe?! Anyway whatever it was, I think we need to go down the training line route for a while. I'll dust off my copy of Total Recall and have a read. Will also book some training sessions to get focussed again. Plus we have decided to get him done, next door are getting a bitch in the next few months. I spoke with the vet and she advised that it would be better to do it sooner rather than later. Especially if he's running off a lot. She said to do it before it becomes a habit for him. I'd like to think it's the hormones raging but I know really it's just lack of training. Bloody dog lol!
Ah....that sounds like a stressful experience, and if you and your vet think the best thing is to have him castrated then of course that's what you should do. But exactly a month ago today you said: And given that it takes a lot longer than a month to get a reliable check-in and the attention of your young labrador outside I'd say yes, you'll still have a fair bit of training to do, "snipped" or not....
Oh Julie I HAVE been doing all of that. That is why today was most frustrating! Today it was like he was possessed for some reason. I like being the hunter idea in snowbunny's post though. That's another game I can try. But I do think for my sanity some training would be good.
Oh, absolutely! Training is where it's at - I completely agree, don't think otherwise! I'm with you 100% on that... It's just that it's not at all quick. I spent at least 10 months rewarding check-ins and working around other dogs and interesting smells before my dog became even half reliable. And he still isn't 100% reliable...I still have terrific trouble sometimes getting him to focus. My point was only that it take time and lots of training....not that you shouldn't train. You very much should! You just need to keep at it, that's all.
Ah sorry you feel a bit adrift with Bob's behaviour and focus.....I detect a familiar pattern.in Forum posts like these.....you get a bit of success and focus..nothing disastrous happens so you kind of take your foot off the training gas thinking all is well .....then a situation happens and you realise that things aren't as solid as they need to be.Julie is so right about everything taking time ....everything takes a loooooong time,and then even longer to get it reliable...I'm not 100% reliable at anything I'm afraid but keep on plugging away ....Booking some training will get you enthusiastic again and I always feel that a trainer gives me a framework to work in and goals to work on to measure progress....I'm not very good at staying focused on one thing,I tend to jump about a bit ,hence never get anything properly proofed That sniffing thing when they have their heads down and are darting everywhere ,freaks me out in the context of a normal walk....I had to go and collect Dexter from a particularly scenty part of our walk the other day and he wasn't even far away from me He was behaving like I was dead to him ! X
Hi Lou, definitely agree that training is where it's at. Shadow has been a lot more smell-oriented recently; I don't know if that's to do with the different wildlife that's about at the moment, something to do with his age/hormones, or a combination of both. It doesn't really matter; it's just something I have to train through. Interestingly, it's all about scents in the air, though - he rarely follows a scent on the ground, whereas Willow is the complete opposite, and ends up frothing at the mouth like Bob. With Shadow, it's definitely not sexually motivated - he met a bitch who was in season and didn't give two hoots - so castration would do nothing in his case. It can be really frustrating and I had an absolutely awful walk a few nights ago, when there was "something" in the woods he wanted to get to, almost exactly half-way through our walk. I clipped him on the lead, but it took well over an hour to get out of that situation because he wouldn't focus on me, and was just trying to pull. I was nearly in tears (very unusual for me) but trying to stay upbeat and chipper to make myself exciting to him, doing lots of changes in direction to keep him guessing and rewarding a lot. It was getting quite dark by the end of it, and I'd forgotten my head torch. Then we had to walk through more than a hundred cows (yes, I counted them) that were in an unusual location; the alternative was to walk the entire route back the way we'd come, and we were nearly home by then... Shadow was scared and jumpy around the cows, which we had to pass by within 10m. And then one started following us... all in all, ARGH! In skiing terms, we'd call this "terrain-f***ing" our students, where you take them somewhere they've been before, they should be able to cope with but, due to something outside of your control, it ends up being completely inappropriate for their skill level. The point is, sometimes things go wrong. I'm working, and working hard, on training both of my two at the moment, and I see improvements all the time. But it's very easy to become complacent and think you've cracked a certain thing, when in fact, you've only got it covered in certain situations. Loose-lead walking? Yeah, easy! Until it's not. And then, by jeebus, it's really, really not. Time and training. Lots of time and lots of training. It does get better. Slooooooooowly Enjoy your sessions, they'll definitely focus you, and let us know how you get on. How about looking at something fun you can do together regularly, too? Maybe some agility, or gun dog classes to help work on some of his instincts and learning to control them? It will help strengthen your bond, too, and make him want to hang around you more.
I agree with everyone totally, but its really hard when things having been going well for a while and something happens which makes you doubt yourself and what you have been doing. Its hard to keep going and I'm finding things very hard with Rory at the moment. He's been behaving like a knob since wednesday and is making me wonder if I've ever done anything in the way of training with him ever or has it all been a dream?. A lot of is silly behaviours have suddenly started up again so it back to the drawing board and retrain. I started back with basics again. I don't think he cares but it keeps me calm. I was getting very upset thinking that I had failed with this dog but I went out with him for a very quiet and very calm walk. I observed what he did and how he reacted when I asked him to do something and was surprised he was actually very good 9 out of 10 times he responed quickly and appropriately. He came when called did not go to far off, he did watch me and he was great with other dogs. He was good on his lead and walked well even when his harness was off and listened and someone who hasn't seen him for a while said he was really coming on and was very calm. So basically I need to calm down and do what I have been doing a trouble shoot some of his problem areas. Its my frustration and worries i need to deal with not Rory. I need to buckle down not loose faith and keep going, he is basically a lovely dog . I do think he maybe having a bit of a hormonal rush and its making him very excitable. He's nearly 2 now and seems to having an attack of the sillies The worse problem is we live next door to the nastiest husky in the world and I am finding this is affecting Rory when he's out and about. he is reacting badly to huskies. Its difficult as winter is approaching and we are seeing more of them. He's terrified if we see the one from next door and we both feel the same i think. It would get all of my dogs if it could and me. It reacts aggresively even if it sees just me and has to wear a muzzle at all times when out and a lead and a harness. Its bitten midge twice had doug round the neck 3 times destroyed fencing and attacked my neighbour in his own garden. I think its knocking both our confidence but Rory needs the occasional confidence boost as he can be a little insecure. So I'm going to work on that too.
Thank you all for your lovely replies, makes total sense. I just wish there was a switch with dogs, once they are trained they are trained! And if it goes wrong, perhaps there is a reset button on their tummys! I might have a look for one later, just in case! One thing I did pick up in Total Recall was to go and get your dog when you want to go home, rather than recall them and then put the lead on. You don't want them to associate the recall with anything negative. That was a bit of a revelation. Fiona - we have just finished doing an agility course. Bob was a bloody nightmare! There was one dog there (neutered) called Rudi. Bob was OBSESSED! He basically spent each session straining as hard as he could to get to Rudi... and whining like a baby. It was crazy. To be fair at the end of the course he was doing some good turns and the tunnel so we got somewhere. But my hands were raw after all the pulling there and the lack of focus. It was a bit depressing if I'm honest! And don't get me started on the loose lead walking either lol! I'm taking Bob and a load of sausages out with me this morning - let's see if we can find a sausage tree lol!
If it makes you feel any better. I am in the same boat. At two years of age Molly seems to have become deaf. I don't think so! So it is back to a bit of intensive training until her reactions become automatic. It has happened several times over the last couple of years. I think that it is something to do with how their brain works at certain stages of their development.
Today I just did a lead walk round town and some basic training. When we were heading out he really pulled, I had the lead quite short and treated when he looked at me. It got worse as we headed nearer to the river area where he is usually let off. In fact he didn't even want his treats at that point as you could tell he was just too excited about the prospect of a river run. Question: what do you do when your dog is so distracted that they don't even want their treats?! Where do you go from there? End the session and go home do you think?! Today though, I carried on the walk past the river along a road. He pulled and again I had the lead quite short but treated when he looked at me. When I turned round at the end of the lane and walked back though, I thought I might try not having him on such a short lead as that seems to me to make it into a bit of a battle for both of us. I held the end of the lead. Well blow me, he walked on a loose lead all the way back home. Past ducks and swans and everything swimming in the stream that runs right alongside the path. I mean you could reach out and touch them they were that close. So I'm drawing a big positive from that. Question: Was it the loose lead that made him settle??... ie he had his head a bit more to sniff around? Or was it because we were heading home and he knew he wasn't going to be let off the lead today?! I'm calling the trainer in a minute, get a few sessions booked, get some of my confidence and motivation back. I do find that I will start off a walk all motivated to train and then he'll pull and it'll p*ss me off and I'll just pull him back and give up on the whole training thing and start swearing under my breath. It's like my mood can really change which I know won't help as it's not consistent. Mollly - I do wonder if a tiny bit of this is hormone related. Who knows!
With my two, if they're off the lead and I'm doing a "there and back" walk, rather than a circular one, I find they offer me a walk to heel on the way back home without me asking for it. They won't stick there religiously, if they smell something nice, they'll go and investigate, but they're quite happy to trot alongside me on the way back home. I find it a really good opportunity to practice the behaviour and sharpen it up, because they're so happy to be doing it then. So there may be some of that involved. It could also be a bit to do with the length of the lead, or, rather, not so much the length, but the tension that is travelling down it. I have seen in the past where owners hold the lead so short and so tight, that it makes them stressed, and this passes on down to the dog. It's entirely possible to hold a short lead and remain relaxed, but I do think it's something that sometimes needs a bit of practicing on the owner's part. As for your first question, I think you ideally don't let them get to that state and work with arousal levels that are manageable. So, don't see it as you having to get to the river, see it as a training walk towards the river. All the time he is manageable, you're good, but as soon as he becomes too distracted, back it up to somewhere he is comfortable listening to you again. Work on simple behaviours: hand targeting, sit, down, whatever he is good at. Walk the same 20m up and down the road, trying to get the same level of behaviour going towards the river as you do away from it. Once you have that, move that 20m stretch closer to the river. It doesn't matter if you don't get there; just use the time that he would have had running on this training instead. I've just re-read Clicker Gundog by Helen Phillips and, since Shadow's LLW has gone downhill a bit recently, I was interested to try something that she suggests. If your dog breaks position, you stop, as usual, and wait for his attention to come back to you. Treat for that at first, and bring him back into the heel position. Eventually, this becomes a treat only when he brings himself back into position. But, the "aha" for me was that, at that point, you stay still. You count to ten before moving. And then, you move off slowly. If you move quickly, it can encourage them to go too fast and and up pulling again, but that pause is the real winner for me; it stops the "yoyo" effect where he just goes from a loose lead to a taut lead and back again. In just one session, it made a big difference to Shadow, so it may help with you, too.
Thanks Fiona, noted. Will try some of these techniques you've suggested - I like the pause idea. Also I think I walk way too fast, need to slow my pace down a bit as that I think encourages rushing and pulling. I definitely think Bob is sensing my tension through the lead. I've booked a 121 for this Friday to run through a few pointers as well. So that's good. And I've booked Bob in to be neutered next Monday! EEK! The vet was very reassuring, and in fact 7-10 days of just gentle lead walking for recovery will give us a really good opportunity to practice the LLW a bit more and brush up on some basic training. (Bob stop looking at me... it's for the best, honest!) x
Charlie finds walking on a short lead A LOT more challenging than keeping a longer lead loose. It's the difference between asking for a casual walk, and almost a formal heel. Asking a dog to walk right by the side of your leg on a really short lead is much harder for the dog.
With our guide dog pups we are taught to keep a short, but loose lead at first. To physically prevent them from sniffing (by keeping the lead quite short) and to stop if they pull ahead. We reward when they do 10 steps well, then 20, then 30 etc. But we don't lure with food. When they get to 6 months old we expect them to walk ahead on a loose lead - so their rump is by our knee. This is more challenging! Twiglet does brilliantly in shops and shopping centres (few sniffable distractions) but, on pavement walks I really need to concentrate to keep her on a loose lead, nose up. We have to teach three speeds - normal, slow (steady) and fast (up hup). We start to teach them to choose themselves when to slow right down - when they see an obstacle - at 6 months when they have started walking ahead. It's challenging, but that's why I like it!
Yup I think I'm setting Bob up to fail keeping him on such a short lead. OK looser slightly longer lead it is then for the time being. Thank you!
