Please could those who understand these dog characteristic's names, explain what she's technically called. what made me wonder about this was i wanted to send the lady in Northumberland a quick explanation of dog and me and where we were up to with her training. could have been a sentence but took a paragraph due to my lack of knowledge of terms. I read about hard dogs, soft dogs, dogs that suit a lady owner :-\ , biddable dogs, honest dogs. A sensitive dog is another one. so, if i may, i thought i would write the two hour dissection of her personality and foibles in the hope that someone would say "your dog's a xxxxx type". Eevee is slow to learn some things and very fast to learn others. sometimes i think this is caused by her concentrating on removing the food from my hand and not learning what gets the food given to her. She really struggles with impulse control. being told off doesn't phase her and she doesn't do naughty things behind our backs like honey dog does. she does them right under your nose with no fear of upsetting you : Eevee's nose is very good and she really struggles to stop being impulsive. she really really wants to do what she wants to do and ignores you but then in other aspects, she's really keen to work with you. her recall is fantastic and everything she does in life tends to be at full force and with a total zest for life. she is a handful. She worries about things and is sometimes insecure. honey dog headbuts her to calm her down ;D. she finds some things scary but has largely grown out of it thankfully. she wears her heart on her sleeve. sometimes we've thought that she's not especially bright because she doesn't learn things as quickly as honey dog. lie down took (honestly) six months. god knows why, she just didn't really 'get it'. However, we were doing memory retrieves out in the woods today and she was finding and remembering memory retrieves in fairly deep forest floor for 100 yards or so. i have no stop whistle trained in or directions and when she went wrong, she just persisted and found it. i thought i'd just try her and see (i know i shouldn't set her up to fail). returned it to me but preferred the opportunity for a bit nibble on the rabbit's earlobe rather than perfect manners. i think this means she's not thick, just different. if you were to compare her sociability with a non Labrador, she's fairly average but in comparison to your highly sociable labradors she's not a particularly friendly dog and would turn on a sixpence to recall to you rather than greet another dog. the work i did on honey with getting her to listen to me with another dog around is just so different to what i have to work with Eevee on. she's a very high energy dog with persistence. i'm not a hard trainer by any means but have never seen her look sad for being told off. honey does sometimes but eevee looks like she doesn't care. ;D i was told that honey was a sensitive dog and indeed a firm trainer scared her to pieces for several weeks after. many thanks for your thoughts Sarah
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Hi Sarah, I would say that she is strong willed but attentive to you Love your description of her
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I have seen a fair few Labradors either in training or out working and non of them are what I would call a 'hard' dog. Some appear quite soft but most are middle of the road, happy go lucky dogs. Which is the ideal temperament when it comes to training. It is difficult to categorise a dog simply from a description but from what you say Eevee sounds like one of those typical 'middle of the road' dogs. An honest dog - that is not easy to define, people will have different ideas what makes an honest dog. Out of my four dogs I would only call one an honest dog.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog [quote author=heidrun link=topic=4096.msg48142#msg48142 date=1390040374] I have seen a fair few Labradors either in training or out working and non of them are what I would call a 'hard' dog. Some appear quite soft but most are middle of the road, happy go lucky dogs. Which is the ideal temperament when it comes to training. It is difficult to categorise a dog simply from a description but from what you say Eevee sounds like one of those typical 'middle of the road' dogs. An honest dog - that is not easy to define, people will have different ideas what makes an honest dog. Out of my four dogs I would only call one an honest dog. [/quote] More please! What's a hard dog? What do you mean by honest dog? Not hat I've got a problem describing Charlie, he's a fetch obsessed, happy go lucky, hooligan. I don't think he is anymore complicated than that.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Yes, please, Heidrun - can you explain briefly what 'hard', 'soft' and 'honest' dogs are??? Thank you! Clare
Re: Help me to Describe my dog i wouldn't call our eevee happy go lucky in any sense of the phrase. these are the types of phrases that are used but not really explained very often. there's an assumption that you'll know what they mean.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I think Riley is fairly honest.....he wants to please and is trusting. If you've established a certain pattern of behaviour he will do that when he knows he's supposed to, he will work for me not himself. I have to be really careful to nurture and not to abuse that trust which is why I only send him for retrieves that exist, that trust and belief is precious and mustn't be broken.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I would describe Sam as very uncomplicated , a simple soul who loves to please .A cautious dog who has built up a huge trust in me , loves life , food, other dogs and all people
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I had a fish round, and found some definitions: Hard dog. A Dog that does not shy easily. Sometimes stubborn. Accepts firm correction easily. A soft dog is the opposite, I guess. Charlie has never been firmly corrected, I don't know what his reaction would be. I reckon he would hate it. He is very stubborn, I think. But he's not soft. He is not easy to upset, he ignores a disapproving tone of voice. And getting bopped on the nose by a gundog trainer once was possibly the most exciting thing that has ever happened to him. So I reckon Charlie is pretty middle of the road too. Looking at Barabra's definition of an honest dog - I don't think Charlie is honest. He is very much a "what's in it for me?" dog.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Its fascinating, how different they are within the same breed , Sam is mortified at raised voices and I`m sure would go completely to pieces if he were to be very firmly chastised
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Where is Heidrun? Anyone would think she's got dogs to train or something like that. Anyway. I suppose by "happy go lucky" we mean a relaxed dog - easy-going, carefree, casual, nonchalant, unconcerned, untroubled, unworried, light-hearted. That's Charlie. Always happy and untroubled, whatever you ask him to do, tubes, Oxford Street, fireworks - all a big game to him. Indeed I think I've only seen him not like this once - the other day at the hydro centre. It was so unusual I posted a worry post!
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Someone, can't remember who, said integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. Replace the word integrity with honesty and you would get my definition of an honest dog. Working spaniels you will get lots of opportunities to find out which group your dog belongs to. ;D A hard dog in the spaniel world is an absolute headbanger and I wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy. A hard dog with not an honest bone in its body is a total nightmare, but luckily there don't seem to be too many about. It is not to be confused with hard going or hard hunting. It is more a mental attitude, once these dogs have slipped into bad habits not even the harshest of punishments will cure those habits. A soft dog is also a tricky dog to train even though it is at the opposite end of the scale. It will see every correction as unfair and will take it personally. That can result in major sulks and being generally uncooperative. Again the best way to train such a dog is to never let it develop any bad habits, that way you will not risk upsetting the dog with even very mild corrections. Murffi is one of those dogs. Easily upset and very demonstrative when he feels that I am being unreasonable. : ;D Ziggy is also a soft dog but not quite in the same league as Murffi. He is also a totally honest dog. My two springers, Alice and Caddie are somewhere in he middle. Both of them are 'shotgun tarts' and will work for anyone at the drop of a hat as long as it involves retrieving or hunting or both. ;D Both of them have got dishonest streaks which keeps me on my toes.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I've been sitting trying to figure out where my dog Lady sits in all this. She will sometimes get up to mischief if left to her own devices eg sneaking upstairs if she thinks no one is looking, or pinching food if she gets half a chance. Not sure if that falls into the dishonest side of the line. Working, she's got loads of faults, but in essence she does what she's asked to do including getting on with the task in hand even if that means figuring things out for herself hunting in woodland and out of sight. She will only work for me though. She seems to pretty much ignore anyone else. Not sure how things would work if I wasn't there though. She might respond to others then. She can sometimes be a bit willful and needs a bit of encouragement to do what's required. So I guess on balance she's probably just the wrong side of honest but not too far too be called really dishonest. ;D
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I'd say that our honey was a soft dog and that actually i'm probably better with them being on the soft / sensitive side. Eevee dog is neither soft nor sensitive. Because of my previous experience it makes me think she's hard but perhaps not as hard as she could be. she wouldn't run away from me and always likes to know where i am. perhaps she's extremely honest. like honest to a fault as she has no deviousness in her. is prepared to be extremely naughty right under your nose. think i prefer a touch of dishonesty ;D it allows you to bake a cake in peace. she's not been bred for her house manners. you can tell the difference.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Hugely useful, and interesting. I don't think Charlie is an honest dog - everything is very much on a "deal" basis with him. That's not just about food, it's generally about the overall outcome - freedom, fun, attention. If he thinks the outcome of anything you ask him to do will be in his favour, he'll do it. But if not, it's a battle. He is acutely aware of the situation in which you give him a command, he considers what will happen after he responds. Or maybe he just isn't really trained at all yet! Might add up to the same thing. I don't think this makes him difficult to train though. It's quite easy, he is transparently acting in his own self interests.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4096.msg48387#msg48387 date=1390133495] Or maybe he just isn't really trained at all yet! Might add up to the same thing. [/quote] Which begs the next question... at what age would you say your dog's character is developed? And to what extent can training practices influence or mould that character??? Nature vs nurture debate for dogs, I suppose... At five months, I'd say Brew's character was only just beginning to show as she is moving towards greater independence... but at the same time, early socialisation (or lack of it) and positive and negative experiences at a young age must leave their mark? Clare
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I firmly believe that experiences can leave their mark, be they positive or negative , but that negative ones can be overcome given time and patience . For example , Sam fell into our garden pond on his very first day here , following this with an unscheduled dip in a stream soon afterwards , thankfully I was on hand both times to drag him out, although neither places had put him at any risk but scared him to death all the same . But what this did was to give him a fear of water which was heartbreaking to see and lasted for some time too . It was a case of gentle persuasion and in the end, getting into a safe part of the river myself to let him see that he could trust me . All in all , this very negative experience took 20 months to overcome . With Millie , she has obviously experienced some hardships , neglect and downright cruelty , some of her issues will take a long time to overcome, if ever, but then she is an older dog to start with .
Re: Help me to Describe my dog I know i started it myself but what an interesting thread. ;D Thanks to all who participated.
Re: Help me to Describe my dog Sarah, just caught up with this. As our dogs are related, and Poppy is a bit older, you might be interested in what I think of her. She was quite a nervous, sensitive little creature as a puppy. I was worried she would always be over-sensitive, and even possibly a bit growly and barky with strangers as a result. I think had she not been carefully trained, and treated with firm kindness, she would have been difficult and frightened, but her confidence is growing in leaps and bounds. God knows what she'd be like without working, as she is completely retrieve-driven, and at the same time only wants to please us, but pleasing us at the expense of a retrieve is hard… For instance we missed a trick with teaching her to walk absolutely to heel as a pup, and as a result we are still trying to iron out the 'sneaking forward' that she does when she knows there is a dummy around. On the other hand, yesterday OH threw three dummies into heavy cover (rushes), in went Pops to find them, and flushed a deer. She barely even LOOKED at that deer, just kept on hunting for her dummies… Not sure, but I think that makes her honest? And she's very, very clever without being too headstrong. I love her, can you tell? :
Re: Help me to Describe my dog [quote author=ClareJ link=topic=4096.msg48388#msg48388 date=1390136732] Which begs the next question... at what age would you say your dog's character is developed? And to what extent can training practices influence or mould that character??? Nature vs nurture debate for dogs, I suppose... [/quote] Hmmm....I'd say Charlie's character was evident quite early. About 3 or 4 months old, a Cornish wise old chap watched me "train" Charlie to go down the steps at the front of our house. I was trying to fade out rewards every 5th step, and struggling. This lovely old chap watched us for about 10 minutes. And then said "that's one crafty, stubborn, puppy you've got there". I think he was right. Charlie is also hugely affectionate, loving, cuddly and completely gorgeous, of course. But he's crafty alright.
