Hi all was just wondering if anyone has any suggestions what size crate we should get for training our puppy, she's coming to us on 20th November at 8 weeks but they grow so fast so your experiences would be invaluable, thank you. Marie
I had a 24" crate for Juno. She came home at 10.5 weeks rather than 8 as breeders here in France prefer the extra 2 weeks before the puppies leave mum and their litter mates. The 24" crate lasted until she was 4 to 4.5 months when she moved into a 36" crate, before moving into the 42" and I then used the 36" for the car. It is fine to use a larger crate when they are small but you will need to partition it so puppy doesn't use the space for toileting.
Thanks Rosemary that is the size I've read actually so knowing that it worked for you is great news, thanks for the advice. Marie
I bought a 30 inch crate. Initially I put her training pads down one end and her bed the other, but I was advised by my trainer that by putting the pads in her crate I was giving her permission to wee in the house. I stopped doing so and she was instantly dry overnight by about 11 weeks. Mark you, I was propping my eyes open so I could stay up till midnight for her final pee and getting up at 5.30 when she did. We had to move her to a larger crate at about six months.
I had a 42-inch crate for Willow and used a divider to keep it small enough so she didn't soil it. When Shadow came along a few weeks later (we brought him home at 14 weeks), I upgraded to a 46-inch crate for the two of them.
I had a 42" crate for Tatze and padded it out with cushions, it worked well. Now I have a puppy every summer and can't face the lack of sleep! So we have a puppy pen with puppy pads at one end at night - it works just as well. They soon stop using the pads and I get my sleep as they use them without waking me. We never get night time poos as their last feed is 7:30pm. They are dry overnight in no time and it doesn't affect their day time toilet training at all Tatze - Twiglet -
I like the setup in Boogie's bottom photo. Crates do NOT train puppy, that's YOUR job. The crate might help you teach puppy Where to potty by containing her till you can get her outside. But crates do Not teach puppy When to potty because they are physically incapable of bladder or sphincter control when young. Readings say complete control will not be till they are around 6 months old. So, if you miss an outing, and you will, puppy in the traditionally sized crate you may have read about, sized to allow no more space than to stand up, turn around and lie down, will be stuck in her own pee, poop or puke. Crating too long is thought by some to contribute to joint ailments by not allowing enough movement for growing bones to move as they should, UTI and behavioural problems from lack of stimulation, boredom and stress. For me, I took the crate time of one hour per month of age plus another hour (thus three hours for a two month old puppy) literally and strove to not leave my puppy in the crate more that three hours a DAY. I think the timing means per time but that makes no sense to me. What? Three hours, out for 20 minutes to pee, back in for another three hours doesn't come to six hours? Well it does in my mind. I found my puppyies in Boogie's setup chose a patch of floor as far away from the crate as they could to potty on. ONe floor was tile and easily cleaned, I did use newspaper to catch runs for one puppy and had no trouble with puppy learning to potty inside and not out but maybe I was lucky. Then again, paper down was only for long stretches, not a regular thing. For one I figured potty training was compete at fourmonths, the other at 4.5 months. Both had lapses which I read is par for the course and in our case due mostly to excitement. Good luck. Hope you don't need to get up twice in the night of a cold, snowy winter with puppy, like we did. Why would the puppy who slept through the night come in spring when it was warm and dry out and the midnight peeer come in winter? LOL.
For me a crate is purely a tool to,keep a small puppy safe, and out of mischief, when you can not be there to watch over them and to provide them with a "safe" place to curl up and sleep. Juno was only crated at night, with one toilet break during the night and when I went shopping so around an hour a couple of times a week. The rest of the time she was free to choose where she slept, which was sometimes her crate and more often the cats' bed
Oh yes - absolutely. My pups sleep where they like unless I'm not around and at night. They often choose under the table on the hard floor
I think a lot of dogs LOVE their crates as their "safe space", I know Lilly did, but also know Boogie's Gypsy hater hers! They are all different. We didn't so much use it as a house-training aid as a safe space and area to sleep at night. I don't think we would have been able to use a puppy pen set up due to the size of our house, but we could have used a couple of baby gates to confine Lilly to the kitchen with its hard floors, effectively making a pen, if we had thought about it (or been on this site and read about it!) Lilly still loves her crate when, and she always makes a bee-line for cousin Georgie's crate in the evening when she stays there on her holiday even though we stopped using it when she was around 2 years old. We had a 42" crate too.
No-one here is suggesting having the puppy in the crate for extended periods. Willow was in her crate at night and for naps during the day, if she was overtired and wouldn't settle outside of it. She was never left in her own mess, not once. She once had an upset tummy for a few days, but I slept on the sofa during this time so I could get to her as soon as she woke. Using a crate gives a puppy a safe place that is "theirs". I only recently took my crate down, but until then, Willow (14 months) would still go into it to sleep and to eat treats or raw meat. Some puppies don't get on with them, and I don't think you absolutely have to use them, but, when used appropriately, they can be a real aid to both the puppy's toilet training and its general wellbeing. If you're going to be out for extended periods with a young puppy, then you should be making arrangements for it to have company, through friends, family or commercial services, because there's a lot more at stake than just toilet training. If you absolutely have to leave a puppy for longer than the ideal, then a pen setup with a toileting area is a far better choice than a crate alone, although lots of people choose to still have a crate in the pen, with the door open, so the puppy still gets a sense of safety. Not entirely accurate; they have limited control, sure, but they do have some. That's why they are able to follow their instincts and not toilet in their den, or when being carried, unless they reach their absolute limit, which can actually be quite a long time. Our pups didn't toilet for four hours on the way home from the breeder, at eight and fourteen weeks. Obviously, you can't expect your puppy to do this all the time, it just wouldn't be fair or healthy and is setting them up for failure, but it absolutely can be done once in a while. The reason they don't always hold on is a simple one; they don't know they should, and so as soon as they feel the need, they just go, unless they are in one of those special situations. That's why restricting their access to small areas of the house and gradually increasing it as they become clean in the area they have is a good tactic; they gradually learn that their den extends to the whole house.
Just to help you out with size, here is Juno at around 11.5 weeks in her 24" crate. She had been home with us for around a week at the time. As you can see she had lots more than just enough room to stand up and turn around, and never wee'd or pooped in her crate even when I was unfortunately delayed on a shopping trip when she had been with us for only a week. WIN_20140907_164802 by Rosemary MCDonagh, on Flickr And just for fun, Juno in the cats bed for a snooze one week later WIN_20140914_144420 by Rosemary MCDonagh, on Flickr WIN_20140914_144414 by Rosemary MCDonagh, on Flickr
Hehe, cute pictures of Juno! Puppies also vary enormously in size; just look at the "How much does your puppy weigh?" thread to see! A show type will generally be bigger than a field type. I think that getting a bigger crate and using a partition gives you more flexibility, rather than finding out you need to upgrade the size of it because your pup has turned out to be a giant.
Thanks again, I definitely agree on it being used as a tool to help keep the puppy safe, I'm here 24/7 anyway and night times stood outside in the snow in my wellies for wee breaks I'm looking forward to
That's always the problem - what size to get! Juno was quite a big puppy. Her dad is a huge black Labrador and her mum is on the higher end of the size scale as well. She's a mix of field and show lines so I think she gets the height from the show side and the slimmest of the field. The last time I measured her she was around 22" to the withers and she's grown a good inch since. I have to admit I went for the 24" crate so she would feel cosy coming from a litter of 10 pups and wasn't too bothered about having to move to a larger crate a few weeks later. Having the smaller rate made it a lot easier taking it upstairs to the bedroom at night. A larger size I would have had to let down and put back up each time, the 24" I could carry up the stairs with no problems. I even sold the crate when Juno had finished with it for 5 euros less than I paid for it, and it was sold within 24 hours - I even had agreed a sale on the next size crate when Juno had finished with it
I didn't use a crate with Charlie at first, I crate trained him later when he was 10 months old. I used a puppy pen at first - a bit like Mags. I worked really well. I didn't get up at night, just kept the nights really short (my OH would stay up until midnight, and I'd get up at 5am). No problem with toilet training. Some puppies seem absolutely fine in a crate from the get go, others not and it always seems to me that for those that are not, having an alternative for a few nights at least so you can take a bit of time over crate training has a lot of advantages. Best of luck with it!
Molly came to us on 22nd November 2013 at the age of 8 weeks. Exactly the same as your pup, so I well remember chilly nights in the garden with a torch. She slept in her crate or went in it when we went out or when I was trying to do things that were dangerous for her (like vacuuming up). I moved her on to a larger crate when she was about 8 months and finally decrated her at about 18 months.
I remember Lilly being unwell over the Christmas period during our snowy few months at the end of 2010. Yes, it was cold outside, yes I had to keep wellies and a torch and an extra warm coat at the back door. But hey! It was beautiful...... Clear nights, twinkling stars, moonlight, colours of dawn......it has it's upside too. (as long as the rain keeps away )
It's really helpful reading everyone's experiences and thanks Rosemary for posting the pics of Juno in the 24inch crate that is really helpful to get an idea and by the way she's gorgeous
