Bit of a problem dealing with something positively tonight. Out on a walk with Charlie, not a training walk, just a 30 – 45 minute bumble… Off we go, ignore a footaball and a very strange looking dog, on lead, with a squished face and a groomed straight coat, like a mini Dougal from the magic roundabout. Good. Through the field and the wood, Charlie walks at heel (by choice) most of the way but will trot off for a pee, poo and sniff when I encourage him to do so. Meet Dougal dog again, this time off lead, and Charlie walks nicely by off lead to heel. Good. Through the woods and Charlie picks up a ground scent of something and will not leave it. He runs after this scent trail (or several trails) for 100m in several directions, he turns back at 100m because I don’t think anything would entice him to go further than that…but still. As he sweeps by me to follow the scent the other way, I shower his head with king prawns and chicken, and pop his lead on while he is eating them. Then he pulls. I stop, not going anywhere like that, Charlie….we make our way back, with lots of stops. Charlie then glues his nose to the ground and will not get it up. I refuse to walk anywhere with my dog gluing his nose to the floor and ignoring me… He stops pulling, because that’s not getting him anywhere, but will not get his nose off the floor. He pulls sideways, which doesn’t get him anywhere either. So we walk forwards together, but with his nose glued to the floor. So I shortened the lead so when his head is at a normal level, he can’t put his head down and head back to the car, pronto. I feel quite bad about this, as he is straining to put his head on the floor, and I’m physically preventing him. I have to discipline myself not to tug upwards, and I fear I did at points… But what else to do? I could have walked back to the car with him with his head glued to the floor…that would flush a lot of my lead training down the drain though, he can sniff, but only when I say “go sniff” and if I had let him, he’d have been towing me round the Common in no time… I could have waited for his attention to return to me – I tried, I put him in a park, but when I set off again, he was just the same…. I didn’t fancy walking along waiting for an opportunity for him to lift his head so I could reward, I don’t think that was going to happen and the reward for that sniff was obviously immense… He ignored my cues to pay attention…whatever trail this was, it was powerful…but oddly, his behaviour didn’t change no matter where I walked…. Suggestions please, for the most positive way I could have handled it. I don’t think I did well…. To cap it off, as I had just about got him walking down a track to the car park in a sensible manner, a beagle was coming along a side path. I stopped to let them cross in front, last thing I need is a pet beagle who wants to say hello. Owner looks at me in a puzzled manner, his dog runs up, jumps round Charlie, Charlie jumps back, and the owner says “ah, look, there, your dog is wagging his tail, he just needs to meet a friendly dog....”. I thought a lot of awfully bad and extremely rude words, but managed to say “thank you, I’m training, could you call your dog?”. And he completely failed to be able to do so….*&!?!* bugger. Don’t you just love ‘em….struggled back to the car with the beagle in tow....
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... I'm not an expert on training etc but I think you did brilliantly and I would have done the same and headed back for the car when all else failed to gain attention. How awfully that when coping, successfully, with Charlie's reluctance to focus on anything other than a new scent, you meet a Beagle off lead with no recall. I think you were very restrained under the circumstances. Sit and relax, award yourself a glass lf wine and look at all the positive responses you had been getting from Charlie before hitting a blip. I think we all feel that we take one step forward and then two steps back but I would view this evening walk as a success, not a failure.
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... hmmm.... well, I think recognising that I had to manage in a situation I hadn't trained for and decided to manage my way back to the car was ok, I do wish that I hadn't had to just stop him putting his head down though. I suppose I could have stood still and just waited, and waited....I think I'd still be there now though, and I hadn't gone out with a view of training....I had to get back by a certain time... Dratted beagle owner...I know! Telling me I'm lucky his friendly little dog has run over to save us from being all nervous and not wanting to say hello. Really, what planet.....?
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... I don't think that temporarily making the lead short was a bad thing. After all, all leads have a length limit..you just reduced yours. Options I can think of are: - making forward progression contingent on 'head up'. But, like you said, this might have taken an hour in the situation.... - changing your criterion for walking so that anything is ok, including sniffing, as long as the lead is loose (that's what I do). He won't tow you about if you keep your 'no moving with a taught lead' rule - lure him along with head up (only works if prawns trump scent...) - ......try some tracking training? Put tracking (which involves pulling) on cue? When people do tracking they often use a different harness though, to signal that we're in tracking mode now. Probably not a solution to the sudden and random discovery of fascinating scents. But it shows he has an interest in it. I don't think there's much helpful there, or anything that you haven't already thought of. Like I said, I don't think that making the lead short was a big deal. YOU weren't making it tight (except for maybe the subconscious mini-tugs) he was.
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... Do you think it was a bitch on heat, Julie? Talking from the female dog end of things, if it was, and Charlie really got into it, you'd have your hands full trying to get his attention back on you voluntarily. Prawns and chicken won't be enough, I fear.
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... Useful thoughts, thanks, Rachael. Yes, think it would have been best to make forward moving contingent on head up, maybe I should have done that just for a few steps or for whatever time I had. He is normally allowed to sniff on a loose lead, but in a way that's comfortable for both of us, we do still walk together if you know what I mean. This was different and I thought he wouldn't be able to stop pulling with his head down. He gave a few coughs when he got into the car, so the tight collar had obviously strained his throat. Karen, I have no idea what it was. Charlie has never really reacted to bitches in season, we've met loads and never had a problem. Lots of people walk bitches in season up at the Common, and it's not been a problem before. Maybe this was just super, super good though! It also didn't matter which track I took, he would not get his head up. I turned back and changed my route a couple of times, so I suspect the scent had gone at some point, but he was still searching for it. Obviously got a way to go on proofing that lead walking, although I knew that, we do still struggle with a high level of distractions.
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... It's probably a one-off, or a rare event. I don't know that I'd be worrying too much about it or altering your training program. Dogs will be dogs! At times, things in the environment are so alluring that they override our cues. It's fair enough I think....
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... No helpful suggestions Julie. I must admit I wondered about a bitch in season too. Also I am thinking of Rocky, Lilly's "friend" who is like a heat seeking missile when they are both in the woods at the same time. Both neutered. Never happens with other bitches. I guess we just don't know what they are "seeing" Are you planning a walk in the same area soon? See how he reacts to the diluted scent?
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... OH has just brought him back from walking in the same place this morning and said he was as good as gold...even left a tennis ball when asked, so, I guess it's like Rachael says, he just sort of "lost it" for a bit - for some reason, maybe a bitch in season but we really meet loads and it's never happened before. Oh well....
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... Can you go back there today when you're not on a timetable, see if he exhibits the same behaviour, which will allow you to take your time with the not moving forwards whilst his nose is down approach? The issue I see with just saying the leash is shorter than normal is that you wouldn't let your dog pull against a regular length lead, so you shouldn't when it's short, even if it's in a downward movement. I think you were in a situation where you just had to manage it because you didn't have unlimited time, and had to make the choice between having his nose down and undoing some of the work you've done in that respect, or doing as you did and allowing a pulling action, albeit down, not forward. In retrospect, do you think that you jogging/running might have helped? When I do this with my two, it definitely raises their heads and gets their attention onto me. Although I'm no runner, so I only do it for a few metres! Edit: ah, I see he's been back there this morning, so scrap my first suggestion...
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... Firstly I think there's always going to be an element of management required in real life situations like this one and I'm totally with Rachael. You just had a shorter lead than usual in order to prevent a worse pulling situation. You do excellent and very thorough job of proofing and, especially as you cant pinpoint what it was, there's probably nothing to add to your plans. On the what was it question.....Riley borders on obsession with certain dogs and is oblivious to others. He's met bitches in heat and not turned a hair, he's met bitches almost in heat and been completely beside himself! He's picky, what can I say I don't think it's necessarily that all in season bitches will cause the same reaction.
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10356.msg152567#msg152567 date=1427531245] In retrospect, do you think that you jogging/running might have helped? When I do this with my two, it definitely raises their heads and gets their attention onto me. Although I'm no runner, so I only do it for a few metres! [/quote] Probably, but I couldn't have run - I think he'd have just pulled me over. That has happened before, he's a strong, heavy dog and I'm not the most..er... stable person...ok, I'm very clumsy and given to falling over anyway! ;D ;D ;D
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... Haha, you sound like me! My ability to trip over my own feet was even in my wedding vows ;D
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10356.msg152582#msg152582 date=1427536110] Haha, you sound like me! My ability to trip over my own feet was even in my wedding vows ;D [/quote]
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... What vow did you make? Not to trip over your own feet? It wouldn't surprise me, my OH thinks my falling over is both hilarious and ridiculous. He still talks about the day I fell over 3 times (on holiday in Spain, alcohol was involved but not as much as you might be thinking) - 19 years ago...
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... It is good that he has been back to the area again and there was no reaction from him. IMO it was most likely a bitch in season with very strong scent!!
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... I know Charlie hasn't shown much interest in bitches in season upto now but maybe he is maturing more so the scent of a bitch is much more interesting. My two are more interested now than they were a couple of years ago. It was obviously a very interesting smell whatever it was. :-\
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... Well, it was certainly the strongest thing we've come across so far, that's for sure. At least he didn't leg it, just ran up and down. Well, we'll have to sort our lead walking out if we come across it again although I think I'll do spaniels hunting first, we're still rubbish at that even!
Re: hmmm...staying choice based, no aversives.... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10356.msg152607#msg152607 date=1427545160] What vow did you make? Not to trip over your own feet? It wouldn't surprise me, my OH thinks my falling over is both hilarious and ridiculous. He still talks about the day I fell over 3 times (on holiday in Spain, alcohol was involved but not as much as you might be thinking) - 19 years ago... [/quote] I lied, it was actually one of his vows.... here they are: <Mine> I promise: • to hold your hand in mine each day we are together. • to make you laugh out loud every day. I hope that some of these times will be intentional. • to understand that a DIY store is your place of worship and studying the plumbing components is a form of prayer that must not be interrupted. • to try not to let the misuse of an apostrophe on a restaurant’s menu completely ruin our night out. But most of all, I promise to love you forever, to be your partner in life, your confidant and your best friend. <His> I promise: • to always kiss you goodnight. • to keep your nose warm in winter and your gin and tonic cold in summer. • to shave my stubble when it gets to the point we need to kiss with pouty lips to avoid scratching your face. • that I will remain sympathetic every time you stub your toe or trip yourself up, however flat the surface may be. But most of all, I promise to love you forever, to be your partner in life, your confidant and your best friend.
