Sometimes this really upsets me... and tbh I am at a loss. Everything we do is positive with Casper, not matter what he does, barking, lunging, I absolutely will not tell him off.. I am always occidentally bumping into both dogs.. minor stuff, the corner of a book, broom falling down, door..(I am really clumsy!) With Casper I get lots of appeasement/calming signals..and when he has been bumped, he just flattens him self on the ground and looks terrified. I don't think Benson has ever given out calming or appeasement behaviour to a human, only when he is meeting another dog he doesn't know and maybe feeling a bit unsure of the situation. An example today, Casper found something really interesting in the compost heap. OH had tried to call him off...in a cheery voice..then he walked over to bring him back...I caught this on camera. Just a nano second later Casper was flat on his belly... . What I do when he does this is ignore him..my thinking is if I acknowledge or try and comfort him, am I just reinforcing this behaviour? Has anyone else experienced this? Does it fade with time? We have had Casper for around 5 and half months now, if anything am more aware of this behaviour than when he first arrived. appeasment signals by kate_beanwood, on Flickr
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Well lilly is a bit the same. Loud noises raised voices (even FUN raised voices) things dropping on the floor. I can't promise we have never yelled at her in alarm or fear but never in anger and she has never been hit. She cowers....head down.....slinks away out of sight. I'm afraid we usually respond by "it's ok lilly you haven't done anything don't worry" or similar. No idea at all and no idea why....
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Being overly sensitive and volunteering subservient behaviour is very common in some working bred labs. My younger girl, Rachael is a bit like this, despite her show genes. She spends a lot of time trying to make herself smaller than people. Everyone is greeted by rolling on her back, she always to make sure she is lower than the person fussing her, and if you sit on the floor with her she looks embarrassed and almost tries to melt through the carpet. She is horrified by arguments of any kind and often looks, well, dejected, for no reason that we have ever been able to figure out. My older girl thinks life and everything in it is just a huge joke, her tail never stops wagging, and she couldn't care less who argues with whom as long as her dinner is on time. I guess they all have different personalities.
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? I don't have any direct experience of this, but...if Charlie is scared or uncomfortable, I comfort him. I make sure never to appear alarmed myself, and always try to appear confident, but if he needs to feel safe, I try to make him feel safe. He usually wants a cuddle or attention if he is feeling unsure, and he gets it and I'll also use food as a distraction (eg painful vet procedures). It might just be that I have a dog who is just not very sensitive (although I think he is more sensitive than I used to think) but I've never seen any deterioration in his behaviour because he is comforted when alarmed or upset. It might not have done any good either, of course....
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? I had a rescue GSP once who was very nervous, but not quite as scared as Casper appears to be at times. Maybe he was hit a lot thus flattens himself? If he was my dog, every time he did this I would smile and be cheerful and give him a great treat and say "lets go" and then do something he really enjoys. I am sure he will get over it eventually, but it does take time.
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Oh Kate I can't help you but your post has made me feel really sad for Casper,if only he could understand he now has nothing to fear.Ive only seen Dexter scared with 2 things....when the kids next door where having a party and the bouncy castle was being inflated,it was making a heck of a din blowing it up and he wasn't bothered but then it popped up visible over the wall,he slunk into the house looking bereft :-\ he also hates balloons....not a balloon popping,I think it's the motion...there are often balloons tied to trees to decorate the park for outside kids parties....he'll eat the sardine no problem walking past bust he's slinking and his ears are flat. I really hope,patience and your love and kindness will build Casper's confidence x
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? [quote author=editor link=topic=10295.msg151238#msg151238 date=1427030888] Being overly sensitive and volunteering subservient behaviour is very common in some working bred labs. My younger girl, Rachael is a bit like this, despite her show genes. She spends a lot of time trying to make herself smaller than people. Everyone is greeted by rolling on her back, she always to make sure she is lower than the person fussing her, and if you sit on the floor with her she looks embarrassed and almost tries to melt through the carpet. She is horrified by arguments of any kind and often looks, well, dejected, for no reason that we have ever been able to figure out. My older girl thinks life and everything in it is just a huge joke, her tail never stops wagging, and she couldn't care less who argues with whom as long as her dinner is on time. I guess they all have different personalities. [/quote] Very interesting, and subservient behaviour is a good description of what seems to be happening in terms of Caspers normal interaction with us, combined with a sensitivity to people in general. Benson is very different, emotionally bombproof!
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10295.msg151241#msg151241 date=1427032048] I don't have any direct experience of this, but...if Charlie is scared or uncomfortable, I comfort him. I make sure never to appear alarmed myself, and always try to appear confident, but if he needs to feel safe, I try to make him feel safe. He usually wants a cuddle or attention if he is feeling unsure, and he gets it and I'll also use food as a distraction (eg painful vet procedures). It might just be that I have a dog who is just not very sensitive (although I think he is more sensitive than I used to think) but I've never seen any deterioration in his behaviour because he is comforted when alarmed or upset. It might not have done any good either, of course.... [/quote] Benson sounds a lot like Charlie... And yes I think Benson is probably more sensitive than I first appreciated, likely due to the fact I am now able to understand very basic "pigeon dog" Casper is never alarmed by external stimuli as such, unless a trigger is heading his way, and then we move into distraction mode, or simply move to a place where Casper can manage and stay under threshold. I am thinking though when he does react, maybe some sort of distraction would work better, a quick hand touch for example as opposed to a comfort? Just thinking aloud really
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? For me, I'd do whatever worked - so whatever made him feel better. I suppose that might be being left alone. I never hesitate to use food during anything that's unpleasant for Charlie - ear cleaning, anal gland squeezing (yuk), temperature taking. He hates all of these things and they make him miserable, and I stuff his face full of roast chicken during them. That doesn't reward him for feeling miserable, it seems to have the opposite effect and makes him mind these things less. So I'm not sure why I should hesitate to give him a cuddle or let him put his head behind my legs if something scares him and that seems to be what he wants in order to feel safe again. It seems to make him feel better, and that seems fine....so, yes, whatever works for Casper I'd say....feeling miserable for less time would, overall, seem to be a good thing... My trainer would tell you to try something, keep notes, and if he gets better keep going. If he gets worse, stop. Probably though, it won't make much difference if it's just how he is...
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? I tend to agree with Julie; if my dog is scared, I instinctively reach out to comfort him. Just this evening, we were "pub proofing" ( : ) and suddenly there was a loud noise over the sound system. Shadow jumped out of his skin and immediately came in close to us - my instinct was to drop down and comfort him. He clearly came to me for security, that's what I wanted to give him. Scientifically wrong or right, I have no idea, and it wouldn't matter; it wasn't something I considered how to react to, just natural instinct. It lasted all of a second and then normality was resumed. I find it hard to believe that a comforting stroke would reinforce a fear; maybe if you were anxious about the situation, that could be passed on, but if it's purely a benevolent act, I can only see the positives in that, letting him know that you're there for reassurance when he's scared. One of the rescue dogs we had when I was a youngster seemed generally OK; he had been tied up outside Battersea and left there - so at least someone thought enough of him to take him to the right place, but we had no history. He seemed pretty happy and carefree, albeit rather underweight, but some time later, I took a wooden spoon out of a drawer when he was in the room and he ran, cowering from me. The obvious conclusion was that he'd been beaten with a wooden spoon at some point. Over time, though, he learnt to trust us and that there were no more beatings coming. The wooden spoon lost its fear factor and I was able to bake without worrying about scaring the dog. So I do think that Casper will gradually learn that there is no threat from you, that you only have his best interests at heart, and he'll settle down. I wish you all the luck in the world.
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? All so different aren't they ? My last Lab was a bold girl who was oozing with confidence , nothing seeming to upset her . Sam is working bred, has never been smacked, ever and yet just a raised voice, even when not directed at him , will see him playing out subservient behaviour . He is a happy well adjusted dog, just doesn't like upset , I cuddle him and tell him its ok and he soon gets over it, but I agree its not nice to see them afraid x
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Unfortunately I can't remember where I read this but it was an article about fear, nervousness etc. It said fear is an emotion not a behaviour so comforting a fearful dog will not reinforce the fear only the behaviour the dog is exhibiting. For example if a dog is afraid of thunder and barks comforting it will not make it more fearful but it may reinforce the barking so as long as Casper isn't offering unwanted behaviour, which he isn't, you can comfort him. I hope that makes sense. : I will try and find the article.
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? That was Patricia McConnell - "You can't reinforce fear" here: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/th...ou-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms (there is a follow up blog to this responding to comments about reinforcing behaviour). I am very much enjoying her book "the other end of the leash" right now.
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Thank you Julie it was irritating me not being able to find it. ;D
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Oh Kate, I've only just read this about Casper! Do you know much about his history? I know he's a rescue but do you know the situation he was in before he went into rescue? Do you think he might have been hit around before he came to you? Poor lad, it does make you feel terrible when they don't seem to understand that you're not going to hurt them. How long have you had Casper now? In rescue terms it's probably still early days, although you've done fantastic work with him so far. It will all come with time and patience and love, and he will get plenty of that from you.
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Hi Kate, just catching up after a couple of weeks and had to reply to your thread. I know exactly how you feel, Charlie as you know is a rescue dog and he doesn't like any loud noises, if I drop something in the kitchen he goes to his bed, he doesn't like any raised voices, very difficult to avoid in our household as there are quite a lot of us he doesn't like it when David has a tea towel so I think he may have been whipped with one :'( but he is OK with anyone else with one. He can sometimes look so worried and we have had him 3 1/2 years, it could be his breed or something that happened in his many homes who knows He is continuing to grow in confidence so maybe one day he won't look quite so worried. It's nothing you've done and like us with Charlie you only treat Casper with love and kindness, as Lauren said it is very, very early days with Casper and what great progress you have made already, well done to you all I think you are doing a truly fantastic job and what a lucky boy he is to have you. Helen xxxx
Re: How to stop Casper being afraid of us? Thank you Helen, and Lauren, I keep forgetting it has only been a matter of months, it's just that it feels like Casper has been here forever! He arrived on the 4th October, found the paperwork the other day
