Sorry, its not a Labrador training question but a terrier Millie one, apologies in advance . On the whole, she has been a good little girl in the year ( next week ) that we have had her , not too many bad habits to sort out at all but this one is proving hard to crack so if anyone has any suggestions, they would be gratefully received As anyone who has taken on a rescue dog will know, they can be hard work , especially if like Millie , they come as an older dog and with no history at all . She is very good off lead , liking to keep me and big Sam in her sight but sometimes , she will run ahead if she sees another dog . I have worked really hard on recall , nine times out of ten it is good and she doesnt always run to other dogs, its just the odd time, most of the time if she does it, its because they have a toy . If I take a ball out with me, she doesnt do it at all , staying close and ignoring other dogs completely , just as Sam does if he has his dummy . My question is this , is it better to have her slightly obsessed with the ball , well really obssessed to be honest , but know that she wont run to other dogs, or not have the ball and work harder on the recall ? I have tried everything else , sausage, chicken , the lot, but the only thing that guarantees that she dosent run to others is a ball . I can take her onto a busy beach and as long as the ball is in my pocket, she is glued to me , but is this good or a false approach as it isnt really addressing the problem, just one effective way of managing it : Our Vet thinks that Millie is between 8 and 10 years old and whilst I dont always hold with the addage that you cant teach an old dog new tricks , its certainly a heck of a lot harder So , ditch the ball and risk her failing dismally or keep to the ball and manage her this way, answers on a postcard please to Trying like Heck in Cornwall , thanks
Re: Hummm Interesting- I was thinking about this just today, on this morning's walk, as I realised that we'd hardly had any 'relaxing' time but that all the ball work, retrieving, hunting etc was meaning that M was having a great time and keeping out of trouble! I was reflecting on Pippa's and Heidrun's posts about spaniels, and the fact that any dog with a lively mind and an even livelier hunting drive will approach a walk as a series of opportunities to look for something interesting, and if you, the owner/ walker, don't provide appropriate opportunities you can hardly blame the dog for looking for its own! I've always found it difficult to find a food treat that tops another lively dog to play with for M, but lobbing a ball into a nearby patch of bracken or long grass is much more successful. So it may be with Millie. I wouldn't see it as a failing, rather a success that you've switched her on to an appropriate activity which keeps her away from less appropriate ones!
Re: Hummm I agree with everyone and I only wish Charlie had the same obsession as it would make our lives so much easier so just go with it Kate it's definitely success not failure xx
Re: Hummm Harley is ball obsessed and I encourage this. Her recall is really good, but perfect when a ball is involved food doesn't cut it for her at all :/
Re: Hummm I dunno, it depends how obsessed. My situation might change, but right now, the ball/dummy obsession is creating more problems than it solves. Without a steady dog (and that's a challenge) I can't compete with someone else with a ball and it's bloomin' difficult! (eg I couldn't walk with you Kate, I could neither allow Charlie to run for Sam's ball, nor stop him). Every tried avoiding tennis balls in Wimbledon at this time of year? : I'd say a very healthy interest, fine. Any signs of approaching an addiction, change tack.
Re: Hummm I say ball in pocket at all times. ;D I'm not sure how but our rescue dogs will only go for their own ball not interested in any other. If you throw the wrong ball and they accidentally run for it they won't pick it up so the problem Julie has experienced wouldn't happen. Will Sam go for a ball ? If he will You could just try an experiment to see if Millie will run for Sam's or only her own ball.
Re: Hummm Kate I was out with my friend on Friday,both our labs were off their lead in the park when a dog we didn't know came into the park on its lead ,both our dogs saw it....simultaneously to distract the, Karen said ball and showed Barnie his tennis ball and I said Look at me at reached in the treat bag for a piece chicken for Dex! :-[ both methods worked!I so wish I could do it with a tennis ball though,I'm very envious !
Re: Hummm Thank you I guess that in my situation with Millie, I have to work with what I have and make the most of it . Ironically, whist out and about, she will only fetch a ball that I have thrown, for her . If I throw Sams Dummy and say his name, she will leave him to retrieve it and will also ignore toys that other dogs have, its like the ball is very special to her so thanks again , I`ll stick with her ball and feel secure in the knowledge that she will be like velcro
Re: Hummm I don't want to hijack the thread (but Kate seems to have settled on the way forward for the beautiful Millie - so hoping it's ok to do so) but have a more general question about the use of a ball like this. I can show Charlie a ball to keep him close and away from distractions - but then he has to get it at some point (well, I figure, otherwise it seems an odd thing to do). And there is a real limit as to how many times he can get that ball (he is only doing "proper" retrieves now, he does not get the ball thrown to run in after - so I give it to him, resulting in a mad gallop round with it - not good, I think). Once he sees the ball, he is in a great state of excitement, constantly jumping round, waiting to get it. That's not good either, I think. It doesn't lead to him being in a relaxed state, ready to learn and respond to commands. It's just like walking having shown him a massive bribe...and what happens if I lose or forget the ball? When I see well trained gundogs sticking close no matter what the distraction, that's a trained response. The handler doesn't have to wave a dummy around to get them to do this. So I'm doubtful and wary of using a ball as a way to get him to pay attention to me. Treats work, of course. Until someone else has a ball....then I'm stuck. I suppose it's back to steadiness...
Re: Hummm To Kate. You have something that keeps Millie totally focused on you and does her no harm? Mark me down as green with envy Julie. I wonder how much of the totally focused gun dog is down to pre selection. Guide dogs and Hearing dogs are carefully selected and bred before they even start training. Do Gun dog trainers cherry pick likely candidates? We all notice the 'perfect dog', but would think a not so perfect dog as normal.
Re: Hummm JulieT, you can reward Charlie with the ball for doing good heelwork, recall, sit, sit to whistle etc, throw it down hard to the ground in front of you as a reward, or give it to him by hand. To stop him running off with it, have him on the lead so he cannot. My Lab is 'trained to the ball' BUT I do find it has downsides, he is often jumping up at my side or the game bag "give me the ball' and if he sees another dog he comes straight to me for a ball and if I don't have it he is poking at my pockets for it. My other Lab spends his time scenting and is so easy to take out, but he isn't so obedient!
Re: Hummm Good points, Stacia - I could always just put him back on lead when we see a distraction anyway though. I guess the ball would associate a reward with that at least. Yes, the whole jumping up at the bag/pocket is a pain. Maybe I'll get to stop him being so silly about the ball in time.
Re: Hummm Did a little experiment this morning at the woods and it worked I let Millie see me put a ball in my pocket and she began to dance around me , then jumping up so I stopped walking and said a very firm NO, started walking again , same thing happened but after the third time , she got the message . Ten minutes minutes later, I saw a dog off lead heading our way, saw Millie clocking the dog, so called her, she looked at me and so she got the ball to carry and ignored the dog , I can live with this
Re: Hummm [quote author=JulieT link=topic=6788.msg92120#msg92120 date=1404034271] Good points, Stacia - I could always just put him back on lead when we see a distraction anyway though. I guess the ball would associate a reward with that at least. Yes, the whole jumping up at the bag/pocket is a pain. Maybe I'll get to stop him being so silly about the ball in time. [/quote] It's difficult isn't it....if he wasn't so mad about the ball it wouldn't keep him near you but you could do without some of the side effects. I think time is the key....to look at some gundogs you'd think they weren't bothered about the retrieve but they are MAD for it. Time and consistency....both things you're good at ;D
Re: Hummm Well done Millie and can I just say excellent BAT work Kate. Julie do you think it could have something to do with age ? Charlie is still only young and,I hope this won't offend, of an excitable nature. I don't know for sure but I think those perfect gundogs we see glued to heel are probably older than Charlie and could well have a very calm temperament. Also you are using positive only training those dogs have not necessarily been trained using positive only a lot of correction could have gone into getting those dogs glued. Im not saying it can't be done with positive only or with an excitable pup of course it can but it will take longer. That doesn't help I know. :-\. For now I guess you need a compromise that won't interfere with training so maybe the on lead for a ball reward is the answer . :-\
Re: Hummm [quote author=Jen link=topic=6788.msg92155#msg92155 date=1404049409] Charlie is still only young and,I hope this won't offend, of an excitable nature. [/quote] Shock horror! How dare you! ;D ;D ;D I hope he'll calm down as he gets older - I think I've got to take the steadiness training a great deal more seriously than I have too though (working on it). We had a good walk today, through the busy town, which we'd never done (without being a disgrace) while he was on rest. More exercise off lead is definitely helping, that's for sure - and it's only been 3 days.
