hello, looking for some advice/experience from those with Hunt Driven pups! My ten month old young man Brodick seems to have some Hunting Drive. he is a pretty well behaved, obedient and chilled young man in day to day life, very soft and soppy, attached to me by Velcro, if I walk ten feet away from him and a friend has his lead he will panic and bark to get to me, a right wee softy. Very good recall in most situations now, I can even recall him from other dogs 9 times out of ten. However....get him near wildlife and he completely changes. We are now walking on a new hillside stretch which is full of gorse and tracks and loops and ups and downs....and rabbit runs. Its a lovely walk and the dogs love it, but from the second Brodick's paw hits the hill his nose is down on the ground, he darts about like a wasp, he is panting, and if you can actually get him to come anywhere near you he almost looks sort of dazed, he won't even take a treat he is so focused on getting back to his scenting. And this is a boy who LOVES his grub and treats in the house. When I call him he doesn't even seem to hear, its like there is nothing in the world except that scent he is following. He is on a long line when we are on this hill. Dummy doesnt interest him, squeaky balls dont interest him, nothing will get his attention other that the scents around him. I will be doing Dummy work with Cuillin and he will just completely ignore whats going on and race about on his line hunting mice or scenting. he will get quite agitated if he can't chase what he wants as I have stopped him, rears on the end of his line and barks. so...how on earth do I get his attention on me when he seems to have turned into a Hunting Crazed Dervish?! I think I manage Cuillins walks well now, she will spend some time doing Dummy work, some time heeling to me, some time we play with her ball, some time she gets to run off ahead exploring/play with dog pals, but she will always recall when she is about to get out of my 'comfort' zone (about 30m). Brodick will recall well to my comfort zone too normally, but no chance if there are rabbits about...I'm not keen on letting this carry on even on his long line, he isn't getting to chase anything, but he is obviously having a ball even tho he is on his long line, and something tells me he shouldnt be allowed to be doing this if I'm ever to get him under control around wildlife! His breeding is strong working lines.....my sister has his sister and she has a similar drive, but is into Dummys and balls so can be otherwise stimulated, Brodick is into Dummys in the house, outside couldnt give a hoot the real thing is much better! Thanks in advance!
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! Debsie, This is a hard one. Mine too will lose interest in food, balls, dummies etc when in prey drive mode. I was advised to avoid taking him to areas where there is an abundance of rabbits etc for the time being, as the more he experiences the chase the more rewarding it will be. This was really hard in the autumn when the squirrels were out in force. However it is in their instincts so I am working on the slow process of teaching him to eventually sit to flush. I am beginning by getting him to stop at a distance from me and I am gradually building up distractions, distance etc. Meanwhile if he chases never recall or call after him, so long as he is safe just turn your back on him and walk away quickly with your other dog; the lack of back-up works to a degree. If I can I hide from him so he doesn't assume I'll be waiting where he left me! I am getting used to looking ahead and getting his attention before he takes off and keeping him in closer to me in areas of high risk of rabbits and the like. I also play scenting games with him. Mine too has a tantrum on his line so I tell him 'lets go' and jog away with him to get him moving and distracted and take him in the opposite direction to the distraction as a temporary measure. It is a long journey and I am at the beginning and understand your frustration.
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! I get really worried when I read posts like these because knowing that I still have months ahead of Pippa's Total Recall I am anxious that when the time eventually comes to let Charlie off lead that he will take off and go back to his bad old ways and as a rescue lab x pointer the job has been all the harder, it will all have been for nothing and then what? Couldn't stand to think of him spending his life on lead Good luck with your training, it all sounds so stressful. Thanks Helen x
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! This isn't really a problem we've had. I think because we have so much free roaming stock my girls are taught from very small pups to ignore it and that instills steadiness and a watchful eye (them on me). Also, again because of the sheep, I start them on the stop whistle much earlier than usual. Even if I can't get a recall the stop works (99 out of 100). Hebe is the strongest hunter I've had, like Brodick she's from strong working lines, and because of various work and family things I couldn't put in as much time with her as I would have liked whilst she was still young and impressionable I've had to work harder with her, she's still a bit of a crackpot at times (six this year, are you listening young miss?, no I though not!). Given the chance she's really rather good at dispatching rabbits but the stop whistle pulls her up sharp, having got her attention I can then bring her back. The one thing, no make that two, that make her totally loose sense of herself are cats (no idea why but I'm sure she would eat one) and wolfhounds (she still misses Finn terribly, we have two others in the village and I have to anchor her very firmly to stop her haring off after them). So I would recommend working on a stop - be it whistle, call, clap, whatever just to bring them up sharp and get their attention before even trying to recall away from the wonderful distractions. Pippa probably has some other suggestions too. Kerryn
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! All of my dogs have enormous hunting drive. The way I deal with it is to make sure that the environment we train in is never so distracting that the dog can no longer concentrate. The fact that your dog is no longer interested in his usual rewards is a sure sign that he is no longer able to focus on you. I can read my dogs pretty well and when out training and also when I work them I can spot when they are getting a bit too 'hot'. So I simply put the dog back on the short lead and do a bit of heel work until the dog is calmer and more responsive to me. By the way, working on rabbity ground would be like rocket fuel to my spaniels. In that sort of environment I would definitely only be able to concentrate on one dog at a time and even then that dog would give me a white knuckle ride.
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! For most pet dog owners getting a good recall is about more than just training a response, it is about learning to manage their dog's free time. You cannot retrain the recall and then expect to go back to exactly the same way of managing the dog that you had before. And sometimes this is the bit that people find hardest. It is something that working gundog owners do all the time. The dog is always 'under your eye' as it were. If you have a dog with strong hunting drive and you allow him total freedom in the countryside, you are going to have problems. Simply because there are so many rewards to be had there. This is more often a problem with hunting breeds like spaniels, pointers, and hprs, but sometimes it is an issue for labradors too. Retraining a recall is only part of the solution, managing the dog, interacting with him, keeping him focused on you is equally important. And this is something I emphasise in the book because it is soooo important. Especially in a hunting dog. This is a big topic and I am a bit short of time today, I will post again but in the meantime, these articles might help throw some light on the instincts involved. They are aimed at spaniel owners but the concepts can apply to any dog with a great deal of drive. http://totallygundogs.com/help-my-spaniel-is-out-of-control/ http://totallygundogs.com/the-trouble-with-springers-part-one/ These articles are for working gundog owners, but you might find it interesting to have an idea of what is involved in controlling a dog that is up close and personal with wild game on a regular basis.
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! I better get Charlie interested in that dummy and quickly! Helen x
Re: Hunting Drive - how on earth do you manage it?! Thanks for this everyone. Am very interested in the whole instinct/drive thing so enjoy reading up on it. While its very hard to manage, it is actually quite awesome to witness them in full hunt mode, and seeing Brodick retreiving (right to me) so naturally from about ten weeks old has been brilliant, he just seems to know how to be a 'gundog'! But he needs to be a gundog with more control from his owner and given more outlets for that instinct I guess.... I have slowly realised that relaxing strolls are out of the question with these high spirited young working dogs, fortunately I really enjoy doing gundoggery kind of stuff with them, so yes it seems as a priority I need to get Brodick started on a Stop Command, and then build more management into his walks. I had Cuillin on her own for longer, she has had a lot more one on one interaction than wee brodick with me, and it shows. I guess a lot of it is just insinct as well, but she is generally a lot more focused on me on walks and knows exactly where I am at all times. The other day I went round the back of a wee hill to untangle Brodicks' line and saw a look of complete panic cross her face when she couldn't see me. Having written this now I also realise I need to give Brodick more one on one walks with me, to build him to the same level of focus as Cuillin, and to start developing 'management' of his walks in the same way as I manage Cuillin's. while he does have walks with me on his own given his age and the fact that we go quite far on the morning walk his are often just a walk to and a game in the park with me. Think I need to get him out a bit longer and distracted on his own.... I will also need more hours in the day! Cuillin has isolation anxiety and barks the place down if left on her own so I will have to rope in helpers or we will all be homeless in no time... . Anyway, thanks again, it seems like this will be a work in progress for some time, he's a fab wee dog, so well worth the time investment from me.
