Interesting article on subject of breed purity

Interesting article on the Retrieverman blog today. Looking at the American Kennel Club's attitude to breed purity. What do you think?

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

Anyone who can use the phrase "absolute moonbats of the worst order" in a sentence is generally worth reading

As a fairly moderate person I can understand people wanting to maintain a breed standard providing more of the types of dogs they love but I can also see why people are not keen on closed registries too. What I struggle with is how any of these people think they are the only person in the world who can see the truth of the challenge that is dog breeding as a whole - health, temperament, fit for function, aesthetics.....

We should be focusing on establishing healthy dogs that are bred and looked after in an appropriate way.

I'm going to ignore the price thing as market forces are fine by me as long as welfare standards are maintained.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

I want to know when this is going to be posted on your Facebook site Pippa…

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

I liked a lot of his point about cross breeds, and liked some of his points about the (US) kennel club.

There is no doubt that there are some extreme pedigree dogs - but to dismiss the whole system does feel somewhat like a bathwater and baby situation. Still, loads of good valid points.

I do think that the UK Kennel Club needs to get more relevant, to more people. I very much struggled to see why I should pay £15 to register Charlie (not having any intention to breed, and not caring much about a certificate saying he was a pedigree dog as I knew that already). I have come round a bit, but only because I've become a moderately heavy user of information from the kennel club. But I doubt I'm typical of most pet owners.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

[quote author=bbrown link=topic=4758.msg58935#msg58935 date=1394114829]
Anyone who can use the phrase "absolute moonbats of the worst order" in a sentence is generally worth reading [/quote]

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

I don't think there's anything wrong with crossbreeds, or breeding pedigree dogs, or indeed a litter of mongrels!

What is wrong is mistreating the animals that are used for breeding, for monetary or other gain. I cannot understand how anyone could treat a dog like poor little Divadog, caged up for years, being used as a breeding machine. :'( But nor can I get my head around breeding dogs that are clearly unhealthy, and insisting on extreme breed standards to suit some twisted idea of physical perfection.

I even read an article that some unscrupulous people have been making use of Facebook to advertise re-homing of street dogs from Rumania and Bulgaria in Germany. Turns out these dogs were either trapped on the streets or else were pets that were stolen, boxed up in little cages, and then transported across Europe in small white vans (you know the sort), and sold to the people who foolishly thought they were buying the animals from reputable animal welfare groups. The animals had been in the cages for days without being let out or cleaned. Disgusting what people will do for money.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

[quote author=Karen link=topic=4758.msg58952#msg58952 date=1394117973]


What is wrong is mistreating the animals that are used for breeding, for monetary or other gain. I cannot understand how anyone could treat a dog like poor little Divadog, caged up for years, being used as a breeding machine. :'( But nor can I get my head around breeding dogs that are clearly unhealthy, and insisting on extreme breed standards to suit some twisted idea of physical perfection.

[/quote]

Couldn't agree with you more.

Am also excitedly awaiting the opportunity to use the phrase 'moonbat of the worst order'. Oh please, let it be soon .
Clare

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

LOL - shall I give it a go? I'd need to be ready with the delete button..

This I completely agree with. I don't understand why pedigree breeders get so upset about the price of doodles etc. I don't see how it is relevant to welfare at all. In fact, there are arguments that higher prices may improve welfare for puppies.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

I am not a fan of designer dogs but that is a personal view and I respect that there are others in this world who do not share my views for whatever reason. Cross breeding different species is not new, indeed when I was in NZ a few years ago the Beefaloo (cross between a cow and a buffalo) was fashionable but did not survive. There is no legislation in this country to control domestic pets and even if there were it would be impossible to police and like the use of marijuana, prohibition just does not work. If there is a demand for crossbreeds and there clearly seems to be there is little that can be done to prevent it as there will always be the person who wants to make a fast buck. The 80 year old Australian has stated publically that he regrets introducing the Labradoodle and there are rumours that crossbreeds bring new genetic defects which if true will influence the public in becoming owners.

Roger

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

[quote author=Morwenstow link=topic=4758.msg58962#msg58962 date=1394119632]
The 80 year old Australian has stated publically that he regrets introducing the Labradoodle and there are rumours that crossbreeds bring new genetic defects which if true will influence the public in becoming owners.
[/quote]

Well....I tried very hard to find the original interview of the original Labradoodle breeder, but couldn't. But the closer I got to the original interview (rather than publications that were reporting reports) the more it seemed to be that he said he regretted the name Labradoodle, which caught imaginations, and then to mass breeding and puppy farms. Not that he regretted Labradoodles themselves, or thought there was anything wrong with them.

Rather like the first person who decided liver coloured Labradors should be called Chocolate might have regretted it for a few years...

But I might be mistaken, as I said, I could not find the original interview. If anyone has a link, I'd be grateful.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

Here's a previous thread about him ...
http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=4381.msg53080#msg53080

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

Thank you Newshound! (Perhaps we should add archivist to your title too!).

Yes, this article reports on the branding of the Labradoodle as his regret (but I am not sure it includes an original interview).

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/making-oodles/story-e6frg8h6-1225860114820

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

Yes everything I have read seems to suggest the regret is around the branding not in crossing the dogs in the first place

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

[quote author=bbrown link=topic=4758.msg58971#msg58971 date=1394121086]
Yes everything I have read seems to suggest the regret is around the branding not in crossing the dogs in the first place
[/quote]

Whether you believe everything you read in the newspapers or not, here is the quote from The Australian dated 29 April 2010:

The place is comfortable enough, but as he says himself: “If I’d stayed in the game, I wouldn’t be living here. I’d be rich, wouldn’t I? But my principles wouldn’t allow me to do it.” Conran says breeding the first labradoodle was “the worst thing I ever did”. Despite claims at the time that it was a big success, just one of that first litter of pups went on to become a guide dog, and almost all of the litters that followed had dogs that shed hair, so they weren’t hypoallergenic at all.

“What I learnt was, you put two dogs together, you can get a hell of a lot of problems,” he says. “Most of them were crazy. The people breeding them now, they’ll tell you they’ve got the ‘hybrid vigour’, but to me that means they are basically uncontrollable. They certainly weren’t any good for what they were supposed to do. And it caused real problems for me. I had calls from people threatening to take me to court. People were going to bash me for mixing the breeds. The lady who gave the first poodle to my boss, who gave it to me, she said she was going to sue me in the courts for using her dog.”

It was an anxious time for Conran but, he says, it’s what he’s seen since that leaves him gloomy. “People now, they just do it for the money. They don’t give a damn. You’ve got somebody who’s got a labrador and somebody else who has got a poodle, and they say, ‘Let’s put them together - we’ll make a fortune!’

As I read this Conran was against the breed not the name?

Roger

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

No, I don't read it like that - although I think you can if you try and it very well may be what the writer is trying to suggest. But it is reports like that which lead me to try to find something closer to the original source.

He is not necessarily talking about the two dogs being a Labrador and a Poodle, but any old dogs in a puppy farm.

Added: sorry, by original source, I understand the original was a TV interview on an Australian network.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

Sorry to be cynical, but it sounds to me as though he regrets not having made more money out of it, than regretting having created a crossbreed.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

I read it as meaning that Wally Conran regrets both breeding the cross and regrets providing the original marketing idea. The problem being that people are now making money out of it without regard for animal welfare. The money is significant because it provides the motivation. People here (Australia) pay over $2000 for a Labradoodle puppy from a breeder who is mass-breeding for profit. Because this industry is unregulated (that is, outside the influence of a body like the ANKC that has something breeders want - registration certificates) people are selling Labradoodle puppies at pure breed prices without doing pure-breed (I mean registered pure breed) standard health screening, pure-breed standard spacing out of litters, pure-breed standard waiting till bitches are old enough to have a litter and pure-breed standard avoidance of excessive inbreeding.

Personally, I do not care if a dog is a Labradoodle, Cavoodle, Spoodle, Pugalier or whatever - what I want to see is enforceable regulation that puts dog welfare first. For that reason, the sooner the Labradoodle gains recognition as a pure breed the better. At least that will provide some avenue for curbing the worst breeding practices... An alternative would be enforceable government regulation of all people breeding anything - but that won't happen any time soon.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

In the UK at least, (not sure about AKC) there is no requirement for health screening for pedigree puppies – anyone can register a litter of puppies with our KC with no health tests whatsoever. And plenty of puppy farmers and casual breeders do exactly that.

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

I can't tell you the hoops you have to go through here, if you want to breed within the constraints put up by either the Labrador Club Deutschland or the Deutscher Retriever Club. They include mandatory health testing (hips, elbows, eyes, genetic tests), a test of the dog's character, the dog has to be judged positively according to the breed standards, has to be proven as not being gun-shy, has to have passed at least one obedience test and at least one working test (to the level of around the UK Gundog Grade 3-4), and so on. They think we in the UK are VERY lax.

I don't know if the situation is the same in the UK - I know the KC is the overreaching organization, but do the individual dog breeds also have associations that regulate breeding?

 

Re: Interesting article on subject of breed purity

So do I

Breed associations do make recommendations for health screening, but they have no powers to prevent you registering your unscreened pedigree puppies with the KC. They may of course be able to throw you out of their breed club, but that is not going to worry puppy farmers.