Hi All, We have had our Bo for a week and a half now and she is settling in very well. She is oozing confidence and is in to everything. In fact she is completely exhausting me (but that is for another topic!) We have almost mastered house and crate training, and she is happy in her crate over night (with a toilet visit mid-way through the night). She recalls well and will sit and wait for me to walk through a door before following (good manners!). She will also sit and wait when I put her food down, until I tell her 'take it'... (9 times out of 10!) All this has been achieved without training with treats, other than plenty of love and affection when she does right, and withdrawing attention when she does wrong. As she is approaching 9 weeks and in a few weeks time we will be embarking on our first short walks at the local park, I thought I would introduce her to her lead in our garden to see how she reacts. Well..... the moment I slip it on (whilst giving plenty of fuss and praise), she turns into a crazed lunatic. She bites at it, somersaults, rolls around etc. she calms down after a while but does not seem to want to walk even a short distance without either part of the lead in her mouth, or without plonking herself firmly on the ground and refusing to soldier. I don't want to get into a debate about the merits of training with food treats, as I am not going that route. I will be taking her to gun dog training instruction from 16 weeks and that training will be based on rewards like getting another retrieve etc. rather than food treats. I was just hoping that you all might be able to point me in the right direction with some tips on how to get her used to her lead over the next few weeks. Many thanks in advance.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Hi and welcome from me and my two dogs . What I did with mine was to get them used to trailing a lead around in the house and garden too , always supervised of course . I also walked them around the garden holding the lead, just so that the lead didn't become the enemy , all in very short sessions .
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Hi and thank you, It is a rope slip lead. It is quite a thin one, for puppies. It must be a slip lead that we use as this will be what we use when Gundog training her and eventually working her. If I were to put the lead on her and allow her to do as she pleases with it, it would last less than two minutes! She is so destructive!
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Hello and welcome. People have differing views on slip leads in general, but as far as I'm concerned, whether you use them on an adult dog or not, you should never use them on a puppy as (as you have found out), they will wriggle a lot, which puts a tremendous amount of pressure on their trachea which can cause irreparable damage. Your puppy also won't come with built-in instincts for walking to heel so will pull on the lead, meaning, again, pressure to the throat. Even if she doesn't do it now, she will end up pulling when she becomes a little more independent in a few months' time. A flat collar is definitely a better option to start off with, until you have a solid loose lead walk. It also give you the chance to pop it on during the dat for a few minutes here and there to get her used to it. My Willow used to hate her collar and would scratch at it to try to get it off, but plenty of time, patience and treats in my case, (but if you're using other forms of reward that's fine too) got her used to the idea. There is certainly no necessity to use treats in force-free training; I believe it's the drug detection dogs that are trained using positive methods but no treats (this may also be true of police dogs and bomb dogs). Is this your first puppy?
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Welcome to you and Bo I used both a puppy size slip lead when we first brought Juno home at 10 weeks as that is what she was introduced to by her breeder who uses them for all her dogs. I also bought a puppy flat collar and lead and used that a well. It tended to be the slip lead at night as it was easy to slip on for the late night/early morning trips to the garden. I introduced the collar first during the day so that she could get used to it and then attached the lead and allowed her to wander around with it for a while. Distracting Bo with a toy she particularly likes may take her mind away from the lead.... All Juno's early training was without the use of treats, it was my trainer that introduced treats to teach "Leave it". I do use treats now as they do have their uses as a reward or a distraction
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead So it seems there are mixed opinions about slip leads. Bo won't be having a collar (it's not conducive to a working dog and can be quite dangerous when they are out working) so all lead training will be using a slip lead. I will persevere and allow her to get used to it by dragging it around initially for short periods and see how it goes.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead [quote author=Dad of Bo link=topic=10419.msg153463#msg153463 date=1427902828] So it seems there are mixed opinions about slip leads. Bo won't be having a collar (it's not conducive to a working dog and can be quite dangerous when they are out working) so all lead training will be using a slip lead. I will persevere and allow her to get used to it by dragging it around initially for short periods and see how it goes. [/quote] Don't think we have the same reaction to slip leads here in France but I know that they are pretty frowned upon in the UK. Introducing it for short periods is the important part of the training. Initially it may be only for a few seconds while she ignores the lead and then gradually increasing with lots and lots of praise and fussing.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Welcome Bo and your dad I think the issue with slip leads is that they are not necessarily associated with positive training methods which Pippa with her website and FB pages, as well as this forum, very much promotes. Traditional gundog training involves quite heavy use of aversive and the slip lead is one way of "punishing" either deliberately or inadvertently. I think teaching a good off lead heel and loose lead heel is preferred before Introducing a slip. And using a limited slip will protect the neck better. I am not a gun dog trainer. I have a pet dog with good manners mostly but a love of chasing. Particularly deer. So I am no way holding myself up as an example. I use a slip lead though. I think those with gundog experience are in a better place advising but I thought I would chip in. Jac and Lilly.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead [quote author=Dad of Bo link=topic=10419.msg153463#msg153463 date=1427902828] So it seems there are mixed opinions about slip leads. Bo won't be having a collar (it's not conducive to a working dog and can be quite dangerous when they are out working) so all lead training will be using a slip lead. I will persevere and allow her to get used to it by dragging it around initially for short periods and see how it goes. [/quote] The thing is though she will have to wear a collar and tag by law when out anywhere on public land or in the back of a vehicle on public roads. It is not something you will be able to avoid. I would get her used to wearing a collar and clip on lead in the house when supervised and especially during mealtimes to give the collar and lead a more pleasant association.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Whilst working and training my older dog he wears a slip lead and no collar for all the reasons you've mentioned. Both my dogs started their training lives in harnesses and collars. Even four years ago collar and lead was perfectly acceptable in puppy class at a very traditional gundog trainer and I think that's even more true now. Neither of my dogs has had any issue transitioning between harness, collar and slip lead and they both (4 years old and 8 months old) still spend time in each particularly the pup as his heelwork still needs a lot of work and I wont risk damaging his neck or throat.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead We put our pups collars on at meal times till they are used to them. The pups are carried out for the first week or so home and we put the lead on to carry them out. They soon get used to both collar and lead
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead I don't work my Lab as such but we do employ gundog training methods and so we use a slip and no collar, for safety reasons as some of the others have stated too, but he does wear a flat collar and lead when out walking, to comply with the law . All my dogs have started life getting used to wearing a collar and lead .
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Hi there, and welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your new puppy. You need to have a think about how you are going to motivate your dog. So, if you are avoiding treats, you'll need to decide on some alternative way of reinforcing the behaviour that you want. Many puppies are quite 'silly' when a lead is slipped on them for the first time, so you will need to distract your puppy with something she enjoys. Have a think about what that something might be.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead It is fine to let a puppy drag a line, or lead, in order to get used to it, though this is often best accomplished alongside distracting the puppy. However, best practice would be to attach the lead to a flat collar. Many gundog puppies these days wear flat collars for the first few months.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Thank you all for taking the time to contribute opinions/ideas etc. Thanks also to Pippa for the replies. I'll see how she gets on dragging her slip lead for a minute or so at a time whilst I distract her, she has a Nylabone that she enjoys chewing so may use that. I will also consider a flat collar and lead for the first month or two of training whilst she is getting used to walking to heel. Rest assured I will not risk causing any harm to our little bundle of joy by persisting with a slip lead if she is reluctant to walk to heel for a few months.
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Tell us a little bit more about your puppy. What's her name and how old is she? Is she your first gundog?
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Hello there, Bo is 9 weeks old tomorrow. She is sired by FTCH Drakeshead Vince and her Dam (Widgerybarn Oak) is sired by FTCH Drakeshead Indiana. Although both my wife and I had dogs whilst growing up, Bo is our first dog together as a couple. She will be a family dog whilst at home, and I will train her to work driven game shoots, rough shooting, and even days out pigeon decoying. She will be the first dog I train so I hope I don't let her down!
Re: Introducing the pup to her lead Welcome to the forum That's right, they use tug games as rewards for drug and quarantine dogs
