Ok folks, I am in need of your sage advice and wisdom please! In the field where I walk Penny in the mornings there is a guy with a black lab who walks at the same time as us. We generally see him about 3 or 4 times a week. I think I may have posted about him before, but I'm not sure. Anyway this is about something different. Our dogs have had a couple of bad encounters - nothing too serious, he stole Penny's ball on one occasion so she had a pop at him and vice versa. This guy never used to take his own ball to the field but now he does, and now we don't take penny's because fetch makes her hips sore. The first thing is that this guy always stands just inside the gate, very inconveniently placed. He doesn't even walk his dog around anymore, just stands ther and throws the ball for a bit then leaves. The field is dissected in half by the main path. The top half has a path going around it and the bottom half is just field. This guy stands just inside the gate and throws the ball for his dog in the top half of the field. That's fine. Once we've got through the hassle of getting Penny past him and the into the bottom part of the field we have no issues. We walk in the bottom. He plays ball in the top. Our dogs don't meet. No issues. Now I would have thought that it's pretty obvious the reason I walk in the opposite part of the field to him is because our dogs don't like each other. He doesn't seem to realise this or care or whatever. It's quite obvious that I am making the effort to keep my dog away from his so we can both walk in the Same field in harmony. It's a pain getting Penny past them in the first place but once we are there it's fine. And he tends to leave the field before us. Now this morning he decides he wants the thrown the ball somewhere else. That's ok, he's perfectly entitled to do that no problems. Except... Me and Penny are happily minding our own business walking in our half of the field and he was in his usual spot by the gate. Now he decides he wants the throw the ball in the half of the field that we are in, and in the direct of us. So Penny naturally hares off chasing this ball. Thankfully she has excellent recall and I get her back. Now because of this guy I have to put her back on the lead and spend the rest of the walk with her on lead. I'm really mad because to me it seems that this guy is being totally inconsiderate. He knows what happens when our dogs come together over the same ball and for weeks now we've had this good thing going and today he just acts like a total idiot. It's bad enough he stands right inside the gate but now there's this. Am I totally overreacting and in the wrong for thinking he's inconsiderate? Or is it me in the wrong? I just don't know. I've made accommodations and I quite obviously take my dog away from his when I see he is in the field so we don't have issues. He knows our dogs don't get along.. Again, is it me in the wrong to expect him to be considerate of our needs just I as I am by taking my dog away from him? We had this unspoken thing and it was working an there were no issues. Now he's changed the game.
Re: Is it me or him? [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=4693.msg57653#msg57653 date=1393589856] We had this unspoken thing and it was working an there were no issues. Now he's changed the game. [/quote] The thing about unspoken things, is his unspoken thing might be different from yours. Maybe his unspoken thing is "isn't it a shame, we are in the same field and our dogs don't get along...maybe if I move closer we could meet...and maybe the dogs would be ok if they get to know each other". Or he just might be oblivious, or might be completely annoying and doing it to make a point. Try a friendly "good morning" and a brief chat, then the next day the same but then start talking about the dogs and "perhaps, shame they don't get along, should I go over here...". He might be horrible, and your efforts might be for nothing. But you never know...you might be surprised.
Re: Is it me or him? I don't know, I just feel like he should remember that our dogs had an issue over balls and therefore throwing the ball in our direction is going to cause friction. I can't be the only person who actually pays attention to the dogs they see on a regular basis? I see several and although I don't interact with the owners, I know which dogs Penny likes and which ones to steer clear of while she's in training.
Re: Is it me or him? Yup, maybe that's true - but if you speak to him, being really friendly, and make contact, it's harder for him to be objectionable after that. You are no longer anonymous, he'll know your name, you could even tell him Penny has a problem with her hips and you are trying to keep her away from balls. If it doesn't work, then you'll know he is horrible.
Re: Is it me or him? I think it's both of you. You are a caring, considerate dog owner who has monitored his movements and patterns of behaviour and has modified yours accordingly. He's just out with his dog. I don't think you can assume that he has taken anywhere near the level of notice of you that you have done of him. I would agree with Julie - make the unspoken spoken. Go for a cheery 'Hello!' and a 'I'm sorry, you are going to think I'm really rude, but I am actually trying to avoid you because my dog has an issue with her hips and we no longer play ball...' You never know, he might turn round and say, 'Oh, I'm so sorry, I chucked the ball your way the other day because I saw you didn't have one and I thought she might like the chance to play...' Sometimes we can be so sure that our intentions are clear... and I can think of plenty of times in the past when I have suddenly discovered that what I thought was obvious was concealed behind about 5 layers of meaning from someone else's perspective. ;D I would also be wary of assuming that your two dogs will never get along. Clare
Re: Is it me or him? It's not even a major thing that's happened but it's made me feel so down all of today... I'm thinking I wish I had never taught Penny to play fetch, then she woulnt have become obsessed with balls, am I gonna have to change my entire morning routine just to accommodate one inconsiderate dog walker... But it's not just him, there's lots of people like that in my area. I don't have a nice dog walking community. This field is the only place I have to take Penny in the mornings because it takes too long to get to the normal park. Am I gonna have to stop taking her there and just walk her round he streets on lead all the time. Sorry, I'm not in a good place today.
Re: Is it me or him? Days when things like this really affect us happen to us all... The important thing to consider is whether you really want to change your behaviour every day, all on account of someone who may be perfectly reasonable if you speak to him. What implications would that have for Penny if you adjust your routine so that she is being walked away from other dogs? What message will that then give her when she sees another dog on the horizon? You have been sensible and considerate. I understand that it doesn't seem fair on you that he hasn't noticed this, but it's not fair on you and Penny to alter your walks on a 'just-in-case' basis. Tomorrow I would suggest you do your usual walk, and - if he is there again at the same time as you - speak to him. If he is not sympathetic, then you have explained your position and will be entirely justified in requesting him firmly to recall his dog. There are inconsiderate owners with badly behaved dogs out there. But there are plenty of lovely, friendly and supportive owners out there too. And if you avoid the first sort completely, unfortunately you'll also succeed in avoiding the second... Good luck with it. Clare
Re: Is it me or him? Ah, maybe it's all the hip thing with Penny, making everything feel very difficult? If so, I really do get that! You will learn to cope though, and adjust. I do urge you to try speaking to this person, assumptions about people are so often wrong. I was walking Charlie around a lake at the common and - horrors - an off lead dog was coming the other way. We had nowhere to go but into the lake or a thick hedge. Charlie was super excited at walking in a new place anyway, so we went into our routine. OH blocked the view to the other dog and I started wafting sardine around to get Charlie's attention. We sit Charlie while we do this, because it work better for him than to carry on walking. As the couple with the dog passed, and walked on the lady said to her husband "what a pair of idiots, handling a dog like that, he'll end up frightened of all other dogs!". Sigh...of course I wanted to run after her and explain my dog had a ruptured cruciate ligament so I wasn't risking him lunging and jumping. But ended up just feeling a bit sad that people so easily think the worst first.
Re: Is it me or him? Sorry your not having a good day Lauren I have to agree with Julie and Clare and for the sake of being able to take Penny to the field I would just ask him if he would like to change the end of the field he walks in and you would be happy to as "our dogs don't get along", I wouldn't take offence at all if someone explained this to me. There was a lady in our village a few years ago training her Lab puppy in the park and I was heading over with Hattie to say hello and she shouted very nicely "if you don't mind I am training" absolutely no problem we just left and respected what she was doing. I know it's a pain but sometimes you have to take the lead in order to preserve your own daily routine. If this man is rude or disagrees etc. then we can have a re-think, give it a go
Re: Is it me or him? Sorry to hear you are having a crappy day when I'm having a bad day I rarely take into consideration what I usually would when it's a good day. Where I live it's also not a brilliant dog walking community, but I have decided when I go into the park that we will have fun. I have spoken to a few owners before if I have moved away for a reason and if they follow in my direction. Once i moved as the previous week her dog snapped at Harley and as soon as Harley seen the other dog she ran back and stopped playing. As she followed me I threw the ball in the opposite direction for Harley then turned around and explained my reasons to the lady. Since then we have done some work in getting the dogs to get along, but also go in different directions at other times when we want space. Might be worth having a quick word, but also, bearing in mind some people aren't always so polite....if this is the case I would probably look at other options. Hope tomorrow is a better day for you xxx
Re: Is it me or him? Hi, agree with other comments, it won't hurt to speak to him and explain about the hips and that she has always loved playing chase but can't now. Avoiding the area just because he's there isn't going to solve it, and just means your the one changing your routine, why should you have to do that. I moved last year and have had to find new walking routes and have met new people, we have an issue with one cockpoo every time we meet it. I like you tried to avoid it but unexpectedly we bumped into each other and the man scooped his dog into his arms saying your the horrible dog, which really got my back up and I explained that he's not like that at all and we got talking, they aren't the best of friends, but are better. It doesn't help that my recall has gone out the window conker is completely deaf when other dogs are around at the moment, have had to go back to basic training on this one. It can't help to speak to him Mel
Re: Is it me or him? Sorry your day has been rotten, Lauren, hopefully tomorrow will be better. Can't add anything to what the others have said, I do agree that at least attempting communication is a better option than changing your routine without at least trying that. I would bet that this man is completely oblivious to your attempts to keep the two dogs separate, men tend to be much less observant about these kinds of things :
Re: Is it me or him? Hi guys Thanks for all your support. We went to the beach today so no chance to walk in the field and see if the guy was back there. I've not had a good couple of days really - what with that while fiasco and now in today's rally class Penny was almost unmanageable with her barking and lunging at all the other dogs. I was almost on the verge of walking out, it took her a whole half an hour to get her head in the game and after that she settled down. Speaking to the trainer afterwards I almost broke down. I felt so frustrated. She assured me I was doin all the right things - taking her away from the situations, click and rewarding calm behaviour around the other dogs and focus on me. After I explained that Penny had just been diagnosed with hip dysplasia he also mentioned that that could be the cause of some of her reactivity - she's uncomfortable so she's mouthing off at other dogs to make them stay away. I had never thought of that before. Now I feel terrible because I feel like I can't recognise when she's in pain how am I supposed to monitor her condition if I don't know what to look for? I thought I did, god knows I've dealt with many dogs over the years with painful conditions and I can't recognise it in my own pup??
Re: Is it me or him? Lauren, hang on - it could well be that Penny isn't feeling any pain, but that she doesn't want other dogs bumping into her because she knows it might hurt...
Re: Is it me or him? Don't feel bad We can't think of everything - I know I don't. Barking, lunging and excitability is class is not that unusual for a young Lab. Obi is 2 and 'barking, lunging and excitable' still pretty much sums up his first 10 minutes of all of our trips to the dog club Really does sound like you're doing all the right things. It's great that your instructor is understanding and supportive. Don't give up - though I totally understand the extreme frustration. To give yourself a little break can you step outside the class with your pup for a mini walk every now and again?
Re: Is it me or him? I know that this makes sense ...it's possible she has been hurt hen playing with a dog a couple of times and now she's wary of it. The trainer also mentioned that she thinks Penny might be going through something called the second fear phase? Has anyone heard of this? Apparent it can happen between 9 and 24 months old, when adolescence hits and they become more way of things. This happened to my mums dog and she just kind of grew out of it. The trainer said it happened with her dog and she was on the verge of giving him back to the breeder, he was that bad she couldn't cope with him. She's offered to stay behind for a bit after our next rally class and do a bit of work with Penny around her own dog to see if we can get to the bottom of some of penny's social issues.
Re: Is it me or him? Bear with me..cos I know nothing..but my trainer says pick your battles..meaning what's the point of putting Benson in a situation where I /and him are not going to win? So right now I take Benson walking where we are unlikely to meet lots of dogs. That is easy for me to do as we have access to lots of land and a huge wood. I note that you are also in Bristol Penny, so you are welcome to take Penny walking in our fields if that helps
Re: Is it me or him? Lauren, Lilly is a frequent growler. She does it when she is hoolying with her mates. She also does it if we approach her beanbag, maybe lean on the edge of it, or if we move a millimeter in bed when she is curled up next to us. We can't possibly be touching her enough to hurt her.....yet it makes sense that she is just anticipating that we might nudge her enough to just alter her hip alignment enough to cause her some discomfort. That makes perfect sense to me.
Re: Is it me or him? [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=4693.msg58017#msg58017 date=1393709663] Bear with me..cos I know nothing..but my trainer says pick your battles..meaning what's the point of putting Benson in a situation where I /and him are not going to win? So right now I take Benson walking where we are unlikely to meet lots of dogs. That is easy for me to do as we have access to lots of land and a huge wood. I note that you are also in Bristol Penny, so you are welcome to take Penny walking in our fields if that helps [/quote] That's a nice offer, thanks. Whereabouts are you? Naya is also from Bristol but she's North and I'm South! lol the pick your battles thing is good, and to an entent i do try to do that - keeping her away from dogs I don't know but letting her interact with ones she's met before and I know are ok with her. I need to keep building on her positive experiences with other dogs because she has so few of them lately. Though yesterday we met a lovely pointer on the beach who was brilliant with her, and was a lovely dog herself. Penny never does anything to is, except play rough, maybe we should discourage this as she's transferring it on to playing with other dogs? The whole second fear phase thing makes sense too as she has only in the last couple of months started really alarm barking at stuff and she has taken a dislike to kids on those little micro scooters where previously she was fine as we used to walk past the school every other day. Goin to research that a bit more.
Re: Is it me or him? I haven't heard the term "second fear". But I read some interesting bits in Ian Dunbar's stuff about adolescent dogs and the need for continuous socialisation. He says: "To remain sociable and friendly, your puppy needs to meet three unfamiliar people and three unfamiliar dogs each day. Otherwise he will disocialize dramatically during adolescence - between four and a half months and two years of age". He also says: "Perhaps the surest bet in dog behavior is that adolescent dogs, especially males, will get into scraps. Prediction approximates a 100% certainty and prevention requires non-stop classical conditioning from puppyhood, throughout adolescence until the dog’s sunset years. Of course a three-month-old puppy is a party animal. The goal is for your dog to remain sociable throughout adolescence and well into adulthood. Never take a puppy’s or young adolescent’s friendly greetings for granted. Every time your three-month-old, four-month-old, five-month-old, six-month-old puppy, or adolescent or adult dog greets or acknowledges another dog, say, “Good Dog”, smile and after the other dog passes by, give your dog a friendly pat or a piece of kibble." This is from http://www.dogstardaily.com/ and free material (hopefully I've avoided any copyright problems). I like his stuff, they are helpful for adolescents, I think.
