Not a thread about which puppy food to buy (we know that question can't be answered....) Charlie is on an expensive kibble, claimed to be designed for labradors between 3 and 15 months, which the vet says is good quality (the vet also sells it, but he is a good vet so no reason to think he doesn't sell what he thinks is good). The reason Charlie is on this is because the breeder was sponsored by the brand and I kept feeding what she recommended - I have no complaints about this, I got a lot of information, free food, excellent health records about both Charlie and his parents, and an excellent all round service and if sponsorship helps with that, fine. But is it worth the money? I use kibble for low value training treats, and if he gets a meal when there is food left over from training. But what am I feeding Charlie? Here is the content of the kibble: rice, dehydrated poultry meat, vegetable protein isolate, maize, animal fats, maize gluten, barley, hydrolysed animal proteins, minerals, fish oil, vegetable fibres, vegetable oils (soya and borage), egg powder, beet pulp, fructo-oligo-saccharides, psyllium husks and seeds, L-lysine, sodium polyphosphate, yeast extract (source of manno-oligo-saccharides), hydrolysed crustaceans (source of glucosamine), taurine, DL-methionine, marigold extract (source of lutein), L-carnitine, hydrolysed cartilage (source of chondroitin). Analytical Constituents: 8% moisture, 33% protein, 14% fat, 1.8% crude fibre, 6.5% ash, 36.7% carbohydrate. So I guess, I'm feeding rice as the largest component, with dehydrated poultry meat, vegetable protein and then maize. I'm happy to see sources of glucosamine and chondroitin although have no idea if these are in sufficient quantities to make a difference. Surprised to see the protein content at 33%...
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Yes, quite a high protein content Julie , I tended to stick to a lower one for ours to promote a steady growth . The carbs are mainly from rice , doesnt it make you wonder about making your own , I do ( think about it, not do it ) when rice is a major component as it is with Sams food too , he has Salmon and Rice . I remember many years ago, the real James Herriot author, a Vet himself being interviewed on Parkinson and saying that it makes him wonder at times how dog survived ( he was saying this tongue in cheek ) when they were fed on table scraps and if they were lucky , Winalot biscuit meal with it : No such items as puppy food or food for specific problems back then, or maybe our dogs are fitter now and more healthy ?
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Or may they are not? Feeding is a minefield isn't it. I've seen so many changes in feeding fashions, remember the frozen horsemeat and whale meat craze when freezers first came in? Canned meat and winalot was the mainstay for many dogs when I was a kid. I've no idea if dogs are healthier for being fed on kibble, but I do know that dental problems in dogs were very unusual in the 50s and 60s. Dogs didn't get fillings and the only dogs whose teeth went rotten were those belonging to little old ladies that fed them sweets Pippa
Re: Kibble - what's in it? So agree Pippa , I had a Springer when my children were small, he was fit as a fiddle, rarely ailed anything, teeth wonderful until he died aged 14 , he was fed on winalot with liver, light and heart when I could get it, or tinned dog food or scraps when I couldnt, makes you think :
Re: Kibble - what's in it? It's all certainly making me think - I seem to be buying very nicely packaged expensive dried rice and chicken (most likely the waste products of human food production) and spending an absolute fortune on chew toys, while trying to get a wriggly puppy to stand still while I clean his teeth - which is not proving to be easy...
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Julie, arent you giving him bones?? If you give him raw meaty bones to chew on, and particularly if you feed him a raw diet with lots of bones, you shouldnt have to clean his teeth at all.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? [quote author=Karen link=topic=2508.msg25031#msg25031 date=1378815925] Julie, arent you giving him bones?? [/quote] No - I'm too confused. My best interpretation of the advice is that I should not be giving him anything else apart from kibble (as it's a complete food), and shouldn't be feeding bones apart from with food (eg meat). Plus, am clueless about what to buy anyway... I find the whole dog food thing very difficult, am pretty passionate about only buying meat from sources which have high standards of animal welfare and not sure that I should care less because my dog is eating it (I buy very, very little meat for the household) and so that adds to my difficulty (and doesn't make a choice of kibble any easier...).
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Yes, just buying kibble doesn't give you a cop-out on the animal welfare front, I'm afraid... Who knows what goes into the kibble, or where they get it from?? Even if you don't feed Charlie raw, you should definitely think carefully about giving him big raw bones for recreation every now and then. I mean beef hip bones, where he can chew the 'knobs' at the end. Ribs are good too, as they can be chewed right down and fully eaten. Marrow bones are not so good as they are too hard. But being able to chew on a meaty bone will be very good for his teeth and for his jaw and neck muscles - and you will be amazed at how happy he is to sit outside with a bone and chew away on it for ages. Remember he is a carnivore; bones and meat are his natural foods...
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Karen - I know, am thinking about it really hard. All sorts of things making it difficult for me though - too much conflicting information! So agree with you about the sources of meat for kibble - I really dread to think...
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Julie, we feed a good quality kibble too but we do feed bones as Karen said for recreation and for keeping their teeth clean. They really love them and will sit for hours with a good meaty bone Helen x
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I know that marrow bones are really hard but they keep our two busy for ages, licking at the marrow inside, they also have big beef bones too . Millie had some plaque/tartar on her back teeth when she came to us, we planned on her having a dental when she is spayed but its gone completely, down to the bones I`m sure
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Julie, there are a lot of arguments both for and against raw feeding and feeding kibble, and I agree, it can be very confusing knowing what is the best thing for your dog. I now feed Poppy kibble in the mornings and feed her raw in the evenings - some people think this is combining the worst of both methods, of course! But it works for me. And for Pops, I think. It is a very individual thing, and if you are considering changing your way of feeding Charlie, then do chat to as many people as possible about it, and get their opinions and hear their stories. Raw feeding works really well for lots of people, but it is not for everyone, and it helps if you have a good, friendly local butcher for sourcing bones and meat. I am really lucky in that I have a friend who is a keen hunter, so I get a lot of venison ribs and other 'bits' that he doesn't need. Like Kate, I do give Poppy marrow bones as well, but I keep an eye on the situation and take them away when she has got all the marrow out and the meat off.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? So do I Karen , take the bones away I mean , they are so hard that I worry about broken teeth . I tend to feed a mix too , some say you shouldnt combine but our two look good on it and their tums are fine so , what ever floats your boat Living where we do , I often get damaged fish for free from fisherman friends , so they get raw fish once in a while , major drawback being fishy breath for a few hours :
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Your so lucky getting free bones etc. nothing is free here and you charged £3.00 for a bag of marrow bones, which I agree with you both and remove them when the marrow has been removed. I did feed Hattie a BARF diet when we got her as the breeder highly recommended, but I couldn't stomach it at all, so it had to go I wonder if we worry and over think a bit too much about dog food more than our own. Dogs have been fed on far worse than kibble over the years and have lived wonderful lives. My dad had a Lab x and he was fed all the left overs, never had a bag of kibble in the house and he had a great life and lived to be 12 years old and he adored everyone. Of course this is just my humble opinion. Helen x
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I'm with you Julie - all extremely confusing! Also Riley stays with my in-laws and my parents and I can't imagine either of them getting their heads round a raw diet. Currently he gets rawhide to help with his teeth but it's not without its risks either. Now he's more mature he doesn't eat it quite so rapidly which is a relief. I also got the vet to check his teeth today after the insurance comment on another thread and asked her to make a note of it on his record. I would like to give him bones but have been too cautious thus far to do anything about it
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Thanks all, really helpful. My reading and thinking continues but I do think I've got to change something. Not least because I'm going back to work, and training is taking up more and more time, and I'm beginning to resent the time spent on teeth cleaning training! If Charlie chews up one more toothbrush....I wouldn't mind, but one type of brush has my finger inside it while he is chewing!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Ah yes the thimble kind, give those a wide birth, go on try the bones the only natural teeth cleaner they don't do wolves any harm. H x
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I'm in Liverpool now staying with my parents and Derry aka Red Rum....he's as big and as fast as a race horse.....he's had an upset tum the last 24 hours so is on nil by mouth( think the M and S genoa fruit cake he stole on Saturday may have something to do with that) Anyway was chatting to Mum about dogs,their tums and different food and she said that she had a spaniel,( that by the by was actually very successful in shows) ...it was the most pampered pooch ever.....the breeder( who also showed the dog so was very pushy about the diet) prescribed all kinds of vitamins,powders,tinctures,drops,raw food,protein etc etc etc......as a puppy there was never a firm stool,Mum was out of her mind with it,tim was a pet first and a showdog second.Her boss at the time bred Great Danes....and she said,stop feeding him everything and get him on a well known tinned dog food brand that rhymes with nappy ......Tim lived to a grand old age,never had any weight issues,health issues or teeth problems.....makes you wonder????I appreciated the chat over coffee.....but Dex isn't going onto cans any time soon!!!!!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I really wonder what was in those tins of dog food we used when I was a kid - shudder...I'm sure they are better now. Or maybe not...maybe kibble is the same stuff in dried form - double shudder...
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I think that kibble is better for teeth than wet food (according to my vet anyhow) but it is still not enough. The best thing you can do for teeth is brush them (same as with your own teeth). That kibble you are feeding, Julie - it sounds a lot more varied in content than a lot of kibbles. Personally, I think that mixing up feed types is fine. Obi gets a lot of variety in his diet (though the basis of it is BARF patties and sardines, with soft meaty bones now and then....and regular teeth brushing). With bones, I avoid any mammal leg bones. They are just too hard. There is a risk of breaking teeth and, over time, they wear teeth down. My old dog scored himself a slab fracture of the upper carnassial (and a subsequent root canal) on a cow leg bone - not an uncommon thing by any means (as described in this article written by the vet dentist we are seeing on Saturday for Obi's chipped teeth....not caused by bones though). Article: http://www.sydneypetdentistry.com.au/fda-dog-teeth-warning-no-bones-about-it-2/ In the article, the vet says: " If you wish to feed bones, you can decrease the risk of problems to dog teeth by only using raw bones (less likely to splinter), match the size of the bone to the size of the dog (less likely to get caught or cause an obstruction), leave the meat on (so there is something to chew), supervise your dog, and take the bone away once the meat is gone". All good practices, IMO, that many members on here already use.
