So Ember is of the opinion that her lead is for chewing while she rolls around on her back with teeth nipping. If I have a massive treat in my hand (think small bits left over roast lamb) she will follow, albeit with occassional attempts at jumping up as if to snatch the lamb from my hand. f I try and get her to walk with kibble or even dry treats - no chance, she just rolls, twists and turns around on the ground but doesn't get up. Any one got some suggestions? Am hoping to be able to take her out in a week - so we need to make some progress!
Re: Leads - descending into farce Do you clicker train her? If so, you just go ahead and C&T for calm behaviour, however brief it may be, and gradually extend the time. You don't want to be luring her into the behaviour, which is what it sounds like you're doing at the moment; you just want to capture and reward good behaviour.
Re: Leads - descending into farce Am using a clicker - but not consistently enough. If I plan to do some training with her, then I take it - so was using it when she was following me - and was rewarding her and clicking, but I'm not in the habit of using it all the time which presumably I should in order to be consistent?
Re: Leads - descending into farce You don't have to use a clicker all the time. I use both a clicker and a marker word ("yes"). But things are much clearer for the dog and tend to go faster if you use some kind of marker (click or word) whenever you are training something. At the moment your pup has no idea what a lead is actually for - she thinks it's a chewing toy that is attached to her How did you first introduce the lead? It can be good just put the lead on and have it trailing round the house (or a short, cut down lead) to get the pup used to it. Even just a shortish bit of nylon rope is good as it won't catch on anything. Let that happen till she ignores it, maybe a couple of sessions a day. Separate to this start training her to stay with you when you walk. If you want this to be by your left side then make that the thing you are aiming for. Have her with you in a non-distracting and safe environment and click and treat for coming with you (on your left if you want that). You might need to encourage her with voice and or luring with a treat initially. Once you've got the two parts working ok (ignoring the trailing lead and walking off-lead with you) then put the two together. It helps to break things down into smaller, easier parts for our pups
Re: Leads - descending into farce My trainer says of course pups will go for the leash at first… it's like a toy dangling by their face! Are you going to be using a harness when you walk? I walk Maisie on a front fastening harness (like under her chin) but the harness we have has loops on the front and back, and I used to walk her on the back loop when she was quite little and just starting walks (as the problem them wasn't pulling, but rather actually getting her to move) and that helped because it kept the leash out of her face. It's a helpful management strategy as you continue to do clicker work for calm behaviour on the leash. I also think once she's out in the world there will be lots of interesting things to see/look at… maybe more interesting than her leash! So hopefully actually going on a walk will be much different.
Re: Leads - descending into farce Oberon that makes perfect sense. Will try that and report back. Will just need to source some rope as I think I'd be nervous of her catching the lead on something. Maisie - was hoping not to have to use a harnass - but know lots of people do. Did you start because she wouldn't walk for you on the lead? I knew that owning a dog would take time & organisation - but I hadn't thought about how much I'd have to learn!
Re: Leads - descending into farce [quote author=Eightytwenty link=topic=10682.msg158514#msg158514 date=1429776938] Maisie - was hoping not to have to use a harnass - but know lots of people do. Did you start because she wouldn't walk for you on the lead? [/quote] There's all sorts of different reasons for using a harness, and different types of harnesses. In my mind, they fall into two main categories: corrective and non-corrective. Corrective being ones that prevent a dog from pulling, or make it unpleasant for the dog to pull and non-corrective those that don't offer any corrections. I decided to put my two in harnesses after Shadow slipped his collar and nearly ran in front of a truck when he was very young. No amount of tightening the collar would have prevented this; his neck and the widest point of his head are too similar in size, so he could have backed out of any collar. It scared me so much that I bought harnesses immediately. I decided I wanted to continue to teach loose-lead walking with no "aids", and so I opted for back-fastening mesh harnesses that offer no correction. Another big benefit of the harness is that it spreads the pressure across a larger area if and when your puppy does pull (whether it's a constant pull, or pulling towards something exciting). Puppies' throats are very easily damaged and when their entire body weight is being put behind a collar, that's a lot of force being exerted over a very small area. A harness is a lot safer because of this. Also, if you're contemplating using a long line at any point, you MUST use a harness rather than a collar, because if the dog gets up to speed and then is suddenly stopped by his neck .... well, you can just imagine how damaging that could be! Then there are corrective harnesses, which often work by turning the dog so it can't physically pull in the direction it wants to go. Or that tighten and make it uncomfortable to pull. I don't know a lot about either, to be honest, never having used this type of harness, but I believe they can often alter your dog's gait, which I don't think is ideal. Obviously, I'm an advocate of training your dog to walk nicely without any assistive aids, but for some people, they absolutely need them for safety; if the handler has an injury that means they absolutely cannot be pulled by their dog, or if the dog is reactive and big enough to pull the handler over, for example. I'm not so much of a fan when they're used in lieu of training
Re: Leads - descending into farce Snowbunny - how frightening that must have been. We live by a very busy road so safety is foremost in my mind. I hadn't appreciated the corrective vs non corrective approach to harnasses. I'd assumed they people had them to deal with specific issues. Our dog trainer is back on Saturday so will discuss further then.
Re: Leads - descending into farce When Gypsy was 10 weeks old she chewed the lead a lot. I sprayed it with bitter apple, she never touched it again.
Re: Leads - descending into farce I have a bottle which I bought for last weeks chewing issues - but would that put her off the lead altogether? I've just done another 5 mins with her walking to heel around the garden (large for a town) and then at heel with the lead on - using the clicker both times. She seemed much more at ease with it than she did this morning. Maybe little and often is a good strategy.
Re: Leads - descending into farce [quote author=Eightytwenty link=topic=10682.msg158596#msg158596 date=1429797059] Maybe little and often is a good strategy. [/quote] It usually is for most things
Re: Leads - descending into farce [quote author=bbrown link=topic=10682.msg158604#msg158604 date=1429798314] [quote author=Eightytwenty link=topic=10682.msg158596#msg158596 date=1429797059] Maybe little and often is a good strategy. [/quote] It usually is for most things [/quote] A few minutes is a long time for a young puppy, I think most books suggest around 5 minutes of training at a time and gradually add a minute.
Re: Leads - descending into farce Tess, now 15 weeks, is fine on her lead for walks but yesterday I put it on her in the house and she was going crazy chewing it! We topped up the bitter apple spray and she still did it! We started heel walking without a lead as Pippa suggests in The Happy Puppy book then added a lead. It worked great in conjunction with the clicker
Re: Leads - descending into farce [quote author=MaccieD link=topic=10682.msg158606#msg158606 date=1429798550] A few minutes is a long time for a young puppy, I think most books suggest around 5 minutes of training at a time and gradually add a minute. [/quote] Some of my initial training sessions with Willow as a tiny pup were no more than a minute. You have to keep it short otherwise they'll just lose concentration, stop succeeding and get demoralised/bored. Little and often is a good mantra.
Re: Leads - descending into farce Zancal - thanks - I went to look it up in the HPH last night and couldn't find it - "lead" wasn't in the index! But will have another look tonight. Snowbunny - there is such a fine line between over excitement and getting bored. Weather has turned for the worse big time so that will help keep things short!
Re: Leads - descending into farce I use a harness with my girl Bella for the same reason as Fiona....she has the potential to slip out of her collar. We live out in the country, but Bella spends her days in town with my husband. The harness allows us take her out and about in town and not worry about her slipping her collar and coming to harm. I started her with a small puppy harness - mesh style, but just bought her a "grown up" harness that is fleece padded and Y shaped, fastens across her back. She doesn't particularly like wearing the harness - she acts all embarrassed :-[ it's kind of funny actually, but safety is important to me, and once it's on...she knows she'll get to go for a walk. A Harness also seems to indicate to the public that she is in training and people generally ask before approaching her....which allows me to (attempt) to put her in a calm sit before they approach. She's 7 1/2 months, so it's still a work in progress...but the harness seems to be a signal to other people, and it's much kinder to Bella to be bouncing like a pogo stick on the end of her leash in a harness and not with a collar strangling her. :
Re: Leads - descending into farce That is useful food for thought - but the pogo stick analagy is hilarious - would love to see it.
Re: Leads - descending into farce pogo stick... dolphin diving take your pick : She just loves all people...she's been in the public spotlight since she was 7 weeks old pretty much....she goes to work everyday with my husband, and so has met hundreds of people who fawn over her and how cute she is and how lovely she is to be at work with him.... : If my husband had a lick of sense in positive dog training - alternative behaviors - etc., she would probably not be quite the crazy pogo stick dog.... but I pick my battles....
Re: Leads - descending into farce Like everyone has listed, there are many reasons to get a harness. I like it because if Maisie *does* pull, it doesn't hurt her neck, it keeps her safer than if she might pull out of her collar. Maisie doesn't care at all about her harness being put on, she wears it almost every time she goes outside. It goes over her head and fastens under her tummy.
Re: Leads - descending into farce Sorry, I'm not sure it is in the book now you mention it ... but it is here http://www.thelabradorsite.com/clicker-training-heel/
