Hi guys, We will be getting our 8 week old puppy (Zulu) this Friday. We will be at home with puppy the whole weekend and on Monday. Unfortunately, as both my wife and I work, Zulu will need to be home alone for the following hours: 8am – 12:00pm (4 hours) 12:30pm – 4:30pm(4 hours) With this in mind, I just wanted to know what the best / safest and most comfortable setup would be for Zulu while we are away from him during the day (2 x 4hours at a time). We have a laundry area (tiled) which is fairly big, so I thought of using this area as his “play area”. It will have his toys, clean water and possibly a doggy toilet. Inside his play area I will put his crate (which I will leave open), which will have his bedding and blanket (which we getting from the breeder who says will have the mums scent on it) Do you think this setup would be fine? Do you think we should try with a doggy toilet (as we can’t take him out every hour)? Do you think we should leave puppy with food as well as chew toys will kibble in them? Look forward to hearing from thoughts. Regards, Robbie
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Ok, I'm probably going to get slated for this, but I'm going to say it anyway, because it's something I feel very strongly about. I don't think it's fair to get a puppy and leave it for 8 hours a day every day. Of course, some people's circumstances change and they find they have to leave their dog for those sort of times, but to intentionally go out to get an animal which needs and loves companionship and to then condemn it to a life of loneliness, is just selfish. If you really do feel you need a dog at this point in your life, then the right thing to do would be to have someone else look after it during the daytime. Other than that, either get an older dog of a breed which isn't so desperate for human companionship, such as a Greyhound or two, or as the fella on Crufts said when asked the same question, get a stuffed toy. A dog isn't an evening and weekend hobby; it's a living, breathing, thinking being. And yes I know some do get used to being left, but why should they have to get used to it just for our selfish pleasure. Also I've seen the fall out of all those thousands of dogs who have ended up in rescue with behavioural problems, because they didn't ever get used to being constantly on their own.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed It's not ideal... but there are plenty of dogs that are in homes where someone might be present, but the dog is ignored, never walked, left untrained. I'd rather the dog were loved, trained and looked after to the best of an owner's abilities rather than purchased and then simply ignored. Jules, I respect you feel very strongly about this, but I also feel that Robbie is a pro-active owner who has found this site, and is seeking advice, so advice is what is appropriate. Yes, Zulu will need access to a designated toileting area as he simply will not have the bladder control to last whilst left. I wouldn't give him access to the whole room though. If you could contrive a set up where he has his bed in his crate (and you are quite right that he will not go in his own 'nest'), and a pen attached to that with a newspaper area? If he has too much freedom to wander, he might get into the habit of going in different spots, and he might be little, but he could still chew and cause damage to your home and himself. How do you get on with your neighbours?? Is there someone you could persuade to pop in to break up each 4 hour stint? For a short play and a little bit of company? There are several forum members who work full-time, and who use a combination of neighbours, dog walkers or doggy daycare in order to keep their dogs happy. It can be done. It would be hugely beneficial though if you could rope in some support whilst Zulu is still tiny. You obviously already have things planned so that someone goes home to give him his lunch; friends / family can start earning themselves an extra special Christmas present this year too! Clare
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Jules, I really take offence to your post, but I'll give you a proper reply tomorrow morning when I'm at my laptop (on my mobile now). Clare, thanks so much for the advice, will also give you a proper reply in the morning
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed It isn't going to be easy for you with small children and a puppy, but hold on and it will get better My friend had to leave her pup (she also had an adult dog) and left it with cage and a pen attached, she had a large cat litter box in which she put a square of turf so that the pup learned to go on grass. She of course changed the turf regularly.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Hi Robbie and welcome to the forum. You must be looking forward to your puppy enormously, and you will get lots of support and advice from other puppy owners here. As you have discovered some people are very against puppies being adopted into families where everyone works full time. And not without reason. Labradors are very social dogs that crave company. And they can become noisy and destructive, if lonely. Having said that, some people (including people on this forum) do make things work, with some modifications on what you are proposing. And I’m sure you will get lots of help and suggestions from them. One problem you do need to address is the lack of company. Your puppy is likely to be very lonely at first. Small puppies take a week or two to settle in and feel at home in a new house. A weekend really isn’t long enough. Until your puppy has accepted your home as his home, and not just some stranger’s house, he will not want to be separated from you. This may lead to the second issue, which is howling. Small puppies left alone in an unfamiliar place sometimes bark and howl very loudly. Depending on how close your neighbours are, this could cause you problems, irrespective of how distressed your puppy gets. The next issue that you might find tricky, is socialization. This is quite a time consuming process. It involves taking the puppy out and about to lots of different places so that he can meet all kinds of people, vehicles, locations etc. You will have to do this in your evenings, at the end of a long working day. That will be hard. House training will also be tricky, puppies need to be taken to an outdoor toileting area at close intervals to begin with. You can put down puppy pads, but at some point you are going to need to transfer him to going outdoors. You could possibly achieve this during a vacation. I have known situations like yours to work, where the family has managed between them to take several weeks annual leave, so that they can get housetraining and socialization off to a great start. And then followed that up with a period of several months when they book the puppy into some kind of day care arrangement or pay a dog sitter to come in and spend some time with him. Is that something you might be able to do? It is probably only fair to add, that in the UK, quite a lot of serious working gun dog enthusiasts kennel their dogs outdoors. I have known new puppies that have been put into a kennel outside, on their own, on their very first night, and slept soundly and peacefully from the very first day. I have also known new puppies that have screamed and screamed incessantly when left alone, and later on taken up barking for good measure. It is difficult to know how a puppy is going to react to what is effectively long periods of isolation, until you have him in your home. I really hope this works for you and Zulu, and that your puppy has the kind of temperament that fits in with your lifestyle. Look forward to seeing lots of photos of him soon.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Thanks for reply, I'll send a proper reply in the morning. We also going to have a kitten in the house at the same time, not sure if they would help a little with the company? I promise a long detailed reply on the morning when I'm at my PC
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Once Zulu comes to feel that your home is his home and the kitten is part of the family, having a kitten buddy will help a little I am one of the people who work full time (so does my hubby) and who has a two year old dog Obi (our second dog). Our dog is the kind of dog who likes a lot of attention and human interaction and who, I am pretty sure, would develop problems if left by himself 5 days a week. We use a combination of a dog walker, dog playgroup and dog daycare to cover the middle three days of the week (Tues to Thurs) and Obi is by himself on Mondays and Fridays inside the house. We also give him a 30-40 minute walk every morning. We go to obedience classes and Flyball classes each week. At night he sleeps in our bedroom. We try to take him as many places as we can on weekends. If we go on holidays he comes too. This level of activity and human contact is fine for him - at least, he shows no signs that there is any problem. So, it can be done, even with a highly people-oriented dog It is certainly not hard, provided you arrange enough forms of entertainment and you treat your dog like the family member that they are. The immediate challenge is to get through the puppy stage, as mentioned, but I won't pre-empt your reply
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Welcome to the forum where you will find everyone from the seasoned expert to the new owner who is going through the same thing as you. It is often a relief to learn that you and your dog are normal. The one thing that we all have in common is our desire to do the best for our dogs. I fall into the new owner category. Molly came to live with us 4 months ago at the age of 8 weeks. I have had dogs and puppies before but was totally unprepared for the sheer energy and boisterousness of a labrador pup. In no time at all your cute little ball of fluff will turn into several kilos of muscle and teeth. They jump and bounce everywhere and would easily knock a young child flying. This seems peculiar to the breed, at our puppy classes it was the Labs that jumped all over people. I tried EVERYTHING to stop this and it made no difference. I recently had my adult daughter and toddler living with me, keeping toddler child and toddler dog apart was very stressful. They are also a very mouthy breed. Previous puppies have been trained not to lay mouth on human flesh in a couple of weeks. Molly is not viscious, it is just that her mouth hangs open a lot and she explores things with her mouth (much like a teething baby). It is improving now, but I was a mass of little marks. Puppies need training. Puppy classes are really a mis-nomer, they train us to train them. Puppy training is very repetitive. They need several short sessions several times a day. I am retired so I have been able to do this and being a clever lab she has learnt quickly. Like fmost modern seniors I have a busy life. I have had to put this on hold for the last four months. Finally I would ask you to think about your kitten. Even in our adult household doors get left open and mischievous puppies get hold of things you really wish they hadn't. Annoying as it is if they munch up another pencil or rip up a magazine, how would your family if Zulu got hold of your kitten and treated it as a wild animal will. Most rescue organisations have strict criteria about who they will allow to adopt a dog, and will home check your property to make sure conditions are right. Breeders do not ask many questions. My apologies to those that do, but my breeder's only criteria seemed to be my ability to pay. I truly don't want to "rain on your parade", but I thought that giving you the benefit of my experience might be helpful. Putting my other hat on. It is great for children to grow up with a dog and Labs do seem to have an affinity with children. So I am not all bad
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed [quote author=Robbiep link=topic=4950.msg61859#msg61859 date=1395221451] Jules, I really take offence to your post, but I'll give you a proper reply tomorrow morning when I'm at my laptop (on my mobile now). [/quote] I'm sorry if I offended you but I can never see the point of pussy footing around when someone is about to make a huge mistake, especially when it could affect their pup for the rest of it's life. I guess if you'd seen as many damaged dogs as I have, you'd be more likely to see why I have such strong feelings about leaving dogs, and especially young dogs from breeds which hugely desire companionship, alone every day for hours on end. Anyway, as I and others have pointed out, with a lot of help from other people, who are willing to look after, train and give company to your pup, then it's doable. That is the only way it can be done without causing the pup to be lonely, get stressed and potentially develop problems though and if you haven't got friends or family around you who are willing to help you for free, then it'll cost you a considerable amount each month. I'll bow out now. I just hope you've taken on board what myself and others have said here and take it into account when making your decisions.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed [quote author=Mollly link=topic=4950.msg61927#msg61927 date=1395238202] Most rescue organisations have strict criteria about who they will allow to adopt a dog, and will home check your property to make sure conditions are right. Breeders do not ask many questions. My apologies to those that do, but my breeder's only criteria seemed to be my ability to pay. [/quote] What a great shame your breeder was so mercenary . Not all breeders are like that though. The breeders I got my lot from were all most eager to "interview" me, to make sure I was the right person for one of their pups, just as they interviewed all their potential buyers. None of them sold their pups to full time workers, unless there was already another dog present and the owners had daytime help already in place, none would sell to someone without an enclosed, safe garden (and they checked) and 2 wouldn't sell to anyone with children under 5 years old. They did this because they knew exactly the problems which can arise if they didn't find the perfect homes for their puppies. Just like most rescue organisations, they didn't want to see their pups end up with problems or being bounced from home to home. The money they got for their pups was secondary to the welfare of those pups, which is exactly how it should be, else they are nothing more than Puppy Farmers really .
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Hello and welcome to the forum. I bet you are really excited about getting your puppy, and maybe now after reading some of the posts you will be wondering how you can make the first few weeks when you have Zulu, easier both for him and for you. The very best option would be if either you or your wife could take some time off to be with the puppy, as he will really need more human contact and supervision than just half an hour between two four-hour stints. If neither of you can take time off work, then maybe you can get a neighbour or friend to pop in a couple of times, to play with him; although this isn't completely ideal, since the neighbour / friend will be the one bonding with him, and not you!! But that would be a workable option. I am sure you can make this work, but it really will take a bit more organization than you have sorted out at the moment. A puppy (or indeed a kitten) is a lot like a small child, and can't really be left alone for four hours at a time. There will come a time when that is possible, but I am sorry to say that the plan you have right now may well backfire on you, as others have already said. You might end up with a puppy who isn't socialized, who is very difficult to toilet train, and who howls or barks incessantly, and who destroys things because he is worried at being alone. But don't despair, there are ways to work this out, and we on the forum are happy to help with suggestions. I am one of those who work full-time - mostly my OH is at home with our dog, but when he is away on business I have an army of neighbours and friends who help me out!
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed [quote author=Jules link=topic=4950.msg61930#msg61930 date=1395239091] [quote author=Robbiep link=topic=4950.msg61859#msg61859 date=1395221451] Jules, I really take offence to your post, but I'll give you a proper reply tomorrow morning when I'm at my laptop (on my mobile now). [/quote] I'm sorry if I offended you but I can never see the point of pussy footing around when someone is about to make a huge mistake, especially when it could affect their pup for the rest of it's life. I guess if you'd seen as many damaged dogs as I have, you'd be more likely to see why I have such strong feelings about leaving dogs, and especially young dogs from breeds which hugely desire companionship, alone every day for hours on end. Anyway, as I and others have pointed out, with a lot of help from other people, who are willing to look after, train and give company to your pup, then it's doable. That is the only way it can be done without causing the pup to be lonely, get stressed and potentially develop problems though and if you haven't got friends or family around you who are willing to help you for free, then it'll cost you a considerable amount each month. I'll bow out now. I just hope you've taken on board what myself and others have said here and take it into account when making your decisions. [/quote] I support your comments and direct approach, Jules. To leave an 8 week Labrador puppy which craves human company, for 8 hours a day is unthinkable. Roger
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed I think it is important that we remain polite and supportive here, please. Robbie has come to this forum with questions, which we will do our best to answer, in a constructive and positive manner. Thank you.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Welcome to the forum, I would agree that the first few weeks/months of puppyhood your little one will need some company and I hope you can find some way to either take some holiday to spend with your pup (the most fun holiday you'll ever have!) or find someone to come in. I work, luckily from home a lot but sometimes I have to be out all day and Riley survives with a bit of company popping in once or twice a day. My in-laws dog seemed perfectly happy with them working full time and a dog walker two or three times a week. He got walked before and after work every day though. I think if your dogs temperament suits leaving them in the day can work but you may want to do some more thinking about the puppy stage
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed You can have a happy, healthy dog and work full time. It is simply not true that dog ownership is reserved for the rich, stay at homes, or unemployed. You just need to put a structure in place to cope. The first thing I'd look for is puppy day care or a puppy call in. I posted on all the different options I used - I'll dig that out for you. In terms of pen and crate arrangements, not everyone has the same views. I recommend a book - Ian Dunbar before and after getting your puppy. This has some things in it that will help you. It will all be fine. You just need to get organised, that's all.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed I agree totally that it is very important to organise these early months , having someone to come in or have a day care facility for your little one . I am lucky to be retired and before then I worked at home in our hotel and before that our farm , so it never was an issue for me for which I am grateful . Many people do work full time and take on a puppy, but it does need thought and careful planning , far better done in advance of the arrival too . I also wish to echo Karens words, lets keep this polite and constructive please , thank you .
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed [quote author=Karen link=topic=4950.msg61941#msg61941 date=1395241224] I think it is important that we remain polite and supportive here, please. Robbie has come to this forum with questions, which we will do our best to answer, in a constructive and positive manner. Thank you. [/quote] Well said.
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4950.msg61959#msg61959 date=1395242342] [quote author=Karen link=topic=4950.msg61941#msg61941 date=1395241224] I think it is important that we remain polite and supportive here, please. Robbie has come to this forum with questions, which we will do our best to answer, in a constructive and positive manner. Thank you. [/quote] Well said. [/quote] Absolutely x
Re: Leaving puppy at home alone - advice needed Hi Robbie, Just to reassure you that your pup will be absolutely fine (certainly not ideal but fine) being left that length of time, I was in a similar situation as yourself with having the terrible affliction of having to work and manage a puppy I have done it with two pups and they turned out dandy. Just be prepared having to clean up the mess everyday and never chastise the pup for it being your fault for not being able to be there when they needed out. I just accepted the fact that toilet training was going to take a while longer. Have fun with your pup. I agree with JulieT, Ian Dunbar before and after getting your puppy online book is a great start. You can download it for free.
