Out for our morning walk today and apart from dodging escaped cattle (another story) we got up onto an old railway line and were walking along happily with both girls off lead (because of the cattle) but walking to heel. A man appears with 2 little Westies, the male one races up to Lochan and starts intently sniffing at her nethers. Now as I have mentioned before, Lochan does not tolerate inappropriate sniffing and will vigorously tell the offender off in no uncertain terms. So I call out to the owner that his dog is bothering mine and she will react if he continues. A very ineffectual attempt to call his dog follows, and Lochan still walks calmly to my heel. The owner of the Westie walks on, said Westie is straight back to Lochan sniffing furiously. Lochan is still walking to my heel so I call out again to the man to restrain his dog or Lochan will really, really tell him off. The man then shouts out "Angus, leave her alone" and walks off ignoring the dog who is straight back again. For a third time I tell the man what will happen just as Lochan turns round and chases this little dog off up the track, making loads of noise but not actually touching the dog. I call her she comes straight back to heel and the little Westie is left standing back on the track shaking. His owner glares at me, yells "that dog should be kept on a lead, look how frightened Angus is" and stomps off to collect his dog. I was speechless - is it me????
I think you gave him more than enough warning and Lochan was more than within her rights to tell the Westie off. It does sound awful when a dog tells another off, and it's very easy to shock people that don't understand or expect it, but maybe it will give him cause to make more effort to restrain his own dog next time someone gives him warning. Or maybe not. Some people are just pig-headed. Did you point out that, had his dog been under control, this would never have happened?
No it's most definitely not you ......there are some people that you just can't get through to....it's so frustrating though when your dog is not in the wrong and you are made to feel like it is,not fair x
Absolutely, to my mind his dog needed to be on a lead or under close control and it was really, really intently bothering Lochan. The owner seemed to feel that just because his dog was small and mine not it was perfectly OK for him to be irritating and it would always be the bigger dog at fault if anything happened. I read a really good article by a behaviourist once about bitches reacting in this way to being bothered by male dogs in which the behaviourist commented that if as a female human you were walking along and a male stranger suddenly started nuzzling your neck and being otherwise amorous no-one would consider this as being acceptable behaviour and that of course the bitch should not be taken to task for reacting noisily and angrily to such an intrusion.
Both my boys are pushy on the sniffing front with some girls. I usually step in and ask them to leave, if they don't they go on their leads. I'm amazed at the number of people who tell me not to worry about it.
There is also a subgroup of folk who just let their dogs push and push for a reaction because "it'll do him good to be told off for it". It doesn't seem to matter to them that in order to get such a reaction your bitch has been put in a position whereby she feels very uncomfortable and has to react. Putting the culprit on a lead BEFORE a reaction seems much the better owner response to me! And although Lochan was not on a lead, she was clamped to my left knee in the heel position while said Westie was just wandering about freely some 20-30m away from the owner.
Lochan was completely within her rights. And it probably wasn't the first time, and certainly won't be the last time, that that Westie gets a good telling off for inappropriate sniffing, if his owner doesn't get a grip!
I would say it shows how well behaved and trained Lochan is that she did not react on the first lot of inappropriate sniffing, nor on the second but on the third occasion. Such a pity that there are so many idiot dog owners who don't have a clue, unfortunately often the owners of small dogs, that we have the misfortune to meet on our walks. Lochan was more than justified in her telling him off. Hopefully if you meet the dog again he will keep his distance.
Going to stick my neck out just a little bit and say it does depend on just how scary Lochan was.... I do think that the owner and the Westie were both completely out of order, absolutely, but the reaction of the bitch has to be proportionate - a growl, air snap, and so on would be what I'd expect. I'm not sure I'd expect a reaction that would leave a dog terrified. Goodness knows I've moaned enough about dogs running up to mine, and I do not think that's ok, not at all, not one little bit. But we all do live in a world full of pet owners who do let their dogs run over to other dogs. Like kids run over to pat your dog and other mad things. It is what happens. I'm also not sure about the human analogy of a man approaching a female human - it's not like we have a culture of a 2 second sniff towards the bottom is ok, but 10 second crosses a line. It would be ok to say "oi, stop looking at my legs, creep". But wouldn't be ok to also pull out a big and very sharp knife, hold it at the guy's throat, and add "or you're dead".
I'm always reminded of Caddie who took one look at Riley eying her up crossed the few metres between them in a flash told him there would be none of that nonsense and went straight back to Heidrun. That was completely proportional and once she'd done her telling she left him alone. Another day a male cocker spaniel had a pop but when Riley backed off he just kept coming to the point Riley was forced to retaliate(which is seriously rare) the cockers owner put him straight back under orders as he had been over the top not allowing Riley to effectively say I'm sorry, I won't do that again. There's not much you can do though if your dog is right next to you, being harassed and the other dogs owner has been asked several times to get their dog under control...... Hopefully the Westie has learnt a lesson even if the owner hasn't
I`m afraid that I`m guilty as charged . I used to allow Sam and Millie to meet and greet their regular friends on walks , but of course , they thought it was fine to meet and greet strange dogs, my fault entirely . However , Sam is sensitive to body language , I know without a shadow of a doubt that if another dogs gives off vibes of " Go away " he will immediately return to me, not known for his bravery , our Sam Millie will have a very quick greet , and then come straight back to me . I guess I should stop it happening in the first place , but at least they don't pester others or insist on being too personal x
Couldn't agree more, sounds like you gave plenty of warning. There are definitely some bad owners out there.
For what it's worth I think you gave the owner more than enough warnings and Lochan showed restraint to put up with it for as long as she did. I bet she was giving the westie signals to get lost before she told him in no uncertain terms. Of course my dogs would've set off in the opposite direction as fast as possible with me attached. A few weeks ago I asked a man if he could please put his dog on a lead while we passed. His response was oh your dogs are vicious are they. I politely explained no just very nervous of small loose dogs as they'd been attacked by two I also pointed out he really shouldn't allow his dog to wander all over fields of barley. He didn't know he'd been seen and when he asked what it had to do with me I'm afraid I took some delight in telling him they were my fields. He quickly put his dog on lead and walked off avoiding eye contact. My friend asked another man to put his dog on a lead as it was bothering her two rotties and got a lot of abuse back and still does if she meets him. I don't understand why if asked people have such a problem putting their dog on a lead briefly.
But I think there is a huge difference between dogs interacting on a normal "meet and greet" basis which happens all the time and my dogs are fine with and being subjected to sustained pestering in a determined fashion. I don't think it is wrong of you to let your off lead dogs politely greet other off lead dogs, especially as you describe it.
I agree Julie , and I absolutely agree with your issue with the Westie , or rather, the Westies owners , Millie would definitely react just as Lochan if she was continually pestered .
Meets and greets are normal and necessary but a pest is another matter. We often meet a very large 43 kilo male Doberman on our walks, he barks very loudly in Hattie's face and wee's on her which really annoys me. Hattie is very tolerant but sometimes she will just not put up with him and will tell him off straight away before he has a chance to start - "not today sunshine". If we arrange to meet up he never exhibits this behaviour and they walk side by side, run and play with the occasional hoolie . Do you think that the Westie just didn't understand Lochan's body language as she did try very hard? xx
A black Lab severely told my Lab off a few days ago and he wasn't doing anything, not even near her, but it didn't bother me one iota, dogs are dogs, there was no blood lost. I think if another dog continued to bother mine, or if indeed mine was bothering another dog and the 'innocent' dog told off the other, then that is life. The man was out of order Lochan.
I just have a different perspective on this - it's highly likely due to the amount of dog traffic I deal with. Meet and greets, where dogs are ambling along, free off lead, are fine, of course - but this is irrelevant to the situation that was being described here. I'm not even sure why we started talking about that... Having walked a dog with an injury for longer than is sensible, if my dog is on lead, or clearly under orders walking at heel, or being trained, the last thing I want is another dog bouncing up. Yes, my dog is very happy about it, and even dying to start a mad hoolie. I'm not. And clearly giving off "go away" signals! And I go to a huge amount of trouble to make sure my dog doesn't do this to other dogs. Maybe Lochan's response was entirely appropriate, maybe she had given several lower grade warnings....but for all I don't want dogs bouncing up to mine, it does happen - all the time. Young dogs with dodgy recalls, or dogs yet to learn their manners and making mistakes (which with the best will in the world, cannot be taught by humans)...and so on. And I expect my dog to remain friendly no matter what. Sure, he can issue an appropriate and proportionate telling off in response to bad manners, but... that's it. No matter how much of an idiot owner they may have. Not that Julie would even have had to ask me once to remove my dog, I hasten to add, I'd have been over there like a shot to get him away from a dog that was walking at heel.
Hmmm, I'm not sure. I would *hope* my dogs would remain friendly at all times, but I think that isn't something you can guarantee. I mean, my two are very different. Willow doesn't suffer fools, but gets it sorted out with minimal fuss, just a quick "grrrr....air snap" if necessary. I went through a period of difficult with Shadow around other male dogs, which appears to have resolved itself now, luckily. Neither of them are really that interested in dogs they don't know. Again, I'm more than happy about that. But some dogs, like some people, are more sensitive about their personal space. Some because that's their personality, some because they are in, or have been in pain, previously abused, whatever. I know Charlie was recovering from surgery, but from what I've read, he's a happily outgoing "typical Labrador", whereas others may not be. There are also situations where, however hard you're trying, your dog is a "work in progress" and you can only hope that your shouted warnings to the other owner are heeded. But a lot of dog owners, in my experience, appear to be oblivious to the signals given off by their own dog, let alone anyone else's! And they think that you're over-sensitive if you ask to not be disturbed, for whatever reason. I've considered getting those "caution" leads for my two, or even "dangerous dog" leads, just to get some peace when I don't want to be disturbed. Maybe they'd make people take me seriously when I asked them to stop trying to distract my dogs when we're training!
