This morning we took Red out for her first off lead walk/run. To get there from the car, we had to walk on lead a distance. I had her on lead and it took for ages to get to the spot we decided to let her off lead. I put all the training into action using clicker, chicken treats and we had to stop loads and sit as she pulled badly. We then had fantastic walk with her off lead, coming back to the whistle. Back on lead and DH took her for walk back to car. He was making her heel by pulling her. She was responding to this and I remember him doing this with Sky who eventually walked beautifully to heel. Somehow though this didn't 'sit' well with me but I didn't want to spoil what had been a fabulous first recall opportunity in the countryside. Should I just ignore and let him do it this way or will we be building up difficulties for the future? Sorry I have so many questions - so want to get this right.
Neither are good things to do. By that I mean it's probably not a whole lot better to attempt to use a clicker and treats while asking a puppy to walk a distance on a lead in a very distracting place - and it clearly cannot do this - than physically making the puppy walk at heel. Both have the potential to damage your training relationship with your puppy. Repeatedly stopping when a puppy pulls when that puppy is not changing its behaviour in response to treats (so they are not adequately reinforcing the puppy) yet keeping going on and on, and changing nothing else, can be immensely frustrating for a puppy. If what your husband was doing was walking the dog on a tight lead (rather than implementing lead jerks which would be worse) it is probably about as bad but probably more effective.
Thank you Julie, I needed to know this. Not sure now how we can get to this good place for letting her off lead. Can't carry her, she is too heavy and big now. He didn't have her on a tight lead all the time but yes there were lead jerks. Crikey, last thing I want to do is damage our training relationship so not sure what to do.
I know, I have been there too - we all have to learn this lesson. It is too easy to think that if you are training with treats and no positive punishment your dog is having a good experience. This isn't the case. Asking a puppy to walk to heel in a place where it can't cope or for a duration that it clearly can't do, and then using negative punishment (preventing access to the environment when the dog gets it wrong) is a not a good way to train a puppy. This is not going to be a puppy that is having a good time. Positive reinforcement training absolutely requires that you break the training down into small, achievable steps and this includes walking on a lead. If you don't break things down and train in small steps in places where your dog can be successful it won't work. Coping in the meantime is one of the big difficulties. The best way is to exercise a dog off lead and only ask it to walk on a lead where it can manage. Another way is to use a back fastening harness where you know your dog won't cope, and a flat collar when you are training. Other techniques that help can be walking in circles over the same ground in a new place until your dog can focus on you and so on.
Yes I take on board what you are saying. Red did have a back fastening harness on this morning. This afternoon, we have been out in the garden and I have done some loose lead training on her flat collar. DH came and joined me and we were able to talk about what I was doing and he could see what I meant about pulling her lead. He tried it but I think it will be a case of old habits die hard but we will get there. I did tell him to imagine a circle around his left foot and each time she comes into the circle to click and treat as Pippa describes in her book. As you say small achievable steps. We then had a fun game of 'bad cop, good cop' which she enjoyed.
When you c&t for remaining in the zone progressing from one step to two steps then four etc., place the treat by your left heel as this encourages for position
You may have to suck it up and just drive to the area. I know that I have been doing that with my pup. This is the strategy that Ive been using for loose leash training. I just started and have only done 2 sessions but my pup is responding to this method pretty nicely. Ide say go with what youre comfortable with, there are many ways to train your puppy.
The second strategy for stopping pulling in that video (turning around when your dog gets to the end of the lead) has worked really well for us. Spending a few minutes being really on the ball with it at the beginning of walks gets our pup walking with us reasonably well. Not exactly heeling perfectly, but not rushing off or lagging behind. You do look a bit strange walking back and forth as your dog shoots from in front to behind for a few minutes though!
I would also add to the start training indoors to a start training in one room, then move to another, then another. Add some distraction then out into the garden, the some distraction then in front of the house and add distraction as it helps the dog to get used to walking loose lead in different set ups and with distractions.
The important thing is definitely set your puppy up for success. It's so easy to try to "go for walks" on lead before they're ready. It's so difficult for them, completely unnatural. I screwed this up with W&S by just using the stop/start which does work, but can be intensely frustrating for the puppy. With Luna, knowing a bit more what I'm doing, I've been very careful to avoid those situations where you're standing with your puppy straining at the end of the lead to get something. By the time you're at that stage, it's too late; your puppy is over their limit. So, try to keep in places where your puppy can cope, and gradually - very gradually - increase the level of difficulty. This is defined by the three Ds; Duration, Distraction, Distance. Only make one of these more difficult at a time. That means either asking for a greater duration of walking to heel or asking for a heel with a greater level of distraction or have the same distraction, but at a closer distance. Generally, when you increase the difficulty of one of these Ds, you decrease the difficulty of the other two Ds. Of course, things happen unexpectedly that you have to deal with; an amazing smell you can't see, a pizza dropped on the floor, someone with a dog coming round the corner unexpectedly etc etc etc. But for these things, if your puppy can't cope, you stop trying to train and just manage the situation. Meaning, maybe, sticking a sardine under their nose and luring them away, or just holding onto their harness until the exciting thing has gone. Then, realise that your puppy may remain in a heightened state of excitement, so spend a few minutes doing something really easy and fun (hand targeting is always good, or a game of tug with the toy you have in your pocket) to get focus again before starting with your training again. Calming circles work well with my older two, especially at the start of a walk in an exciting place, but I find that doing the "about turn" can also be punishing to them, depending on the situation. You also see people trying to do this who end up dragging their dog by the collar, or jerking on the lead, which is definitely punishing. For me, I'd rather try to set the puppy up for success than responding when they "fail". Of course, my puppy isn't perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm doing a far better job this time around by really keeping my expectations much, much lower - and, perversely, we're progressing much faster because of that.
I think I started walking Red way too soon. I was so desperate to get out of the house after she got her second vaccination. Very quickly it escalated into her pulling and despite my efforts it all went pear shaped. I realise I was trying to cover distance in the short time we were out. Since the weekend, I have done no walks as such. We have taken her out into the countryside, found somewhere that we can let her off lead right from the get go and am focussing on walking to heel without a lead, recall using the whistle as she is coming to us and some sit and stay work. Today, she was really good but I noticed she was getting distracted and doing some ignoring. How much do you let them do their bit of enjoying sniffing, smelling etc and how much should you expect an instant response? I am practicing loose lead walking in the garden each day and we will try to just go outside but not go far. Hoping this will get better results and I can prevent the pulling.
Try this exercise: Do not try to stop your puppy sniffing (free off lead). Let her sniff. Sit down (if you can) and do nothing. When your puppy approaches you, have a great game with her (plan this in advance, make sure you know what she enjoys - and do that, not what you think she enjoys) for just a little bit. Say 30 seconds. Then tell her 'go free' (or whatever your release cue is), stop, sit down, and let her sniff. When she turns back to you again, start the game. Then tell her go sniff. See how long it takes her for her to want the game.... It's not about you 'letting' her enjoy sniffing. It's about her choosing to not sniff, and play with you instead.
Update on loose lead walking with Red. It is improving very slowly but overall I am happy with her progress. We have spent time daily in the garden just walking to heel with and without her lead on. Now we are walking again from the house but not far. She is sitting whilst I open the door and staying until told. There is little pulling but we don't go far and I do change directions and she is managing well. I am using just her lead on her collar now she is not pulling but I have just bought a perfect fit harness for her. I have abandoned the idea of actually going for a walk and being guided more on how well she is doing so if I sense her starting to get distracted, we are not far from home. I hope I am building on success. Daily we take her out in the country so she is both on and off lead. Most of the time she walks really well to heel. What we now have to work on is meeting other dogs now the weather is nicer and people are out and about more. Any tips for when we approach people with other dogs? Yesterday, she was lunging at both people and dogs. Whilst they all said things like 'oh isn't she cute', I was cringing and I don't want her doing that when she is full size and not so cute
It depends on how you want her to react. On lead I would put a nice treat on her nose and lure her past. I never want mine to greet on lead. If they are off lead and the other dog is too I let them greet and play naturally. If they are off lead and the other dog is on lead I put them back on and lure past. You never know the reason for the dog being on lead. They do get to the stage where they don't need luring and just know they don't greet on lead.
This morning, I thought we would go into our village for a little walk. Used the new Perfect Harness on Red. So glad I did as there was pulling as lots of distractions even though a village. She did however walk on a loose lead for 50% of the time getting lots of treats. We 'sat' whilst an elderly woman walked past who said 'You have got a big problem there' as Red lunges forward. I replied 'No, I have got a puppy here who's learning'; she said 'They are difficult to train' and I just said 'We will get there'. So that was my social interaction today outside the house!!
You will get there, you're doing brilliantly, and your response to the unhelpful comment was absolutely right. I was buying something for my pup and when a woman standing next to me knew I had a lab she said something like "oh they're so dopey (or some other word implying lack of intelligence), I've got a lurcher." I smiled and didn't respond coz I didn't want to get into 'my dog's better than yours' type verbals, but afterwards I thought, you never see a lurcher as a guide dog or sniffer dog or on a hunt or retrieve!! Quite put my noise out of joint!
Unhelpful advice and comments - the world is full of them! I had one too tonight, doing some loose lead walking with Bailey in a new area, so sniffing excitement level very high (ignoring treats high!). So I was just standing waiting for him to calm down and look at me when a voice from behind me said "pull him back harder, you need a choke chain on him." I just looked back and smiled then "you need to watch CM" at that I very politely (my OH said he was amazed I was so polite!) said that I did not want to punish my boy for being a young dog and thank you for the advice but he is doing very well thank you (Bailey FOR ONCE actually proved me right as he totally relaxed and sat down at my side looking up at me - YES YES YES!!!!!).
