Lunging on the lead.....here we go......I'll try and keep my background brief.... Dexter has always done this and recently it has got worse,I feel like I can pinpoint the recent decline to an on lead interaction with a lab puppy that didn't go well and really rattled me. It will manifest in a couple of different ways but the build up always starts like this : He will 'point',ears up on alert,tail out horizontal and the slow creeping walk starts.At this point I intercept him with our 'look at me command and providing the distance is adequate I can lure him past on heel with food rewards,lunge averted.However if that dog starts barking at Dexter ( there's a lot more dogs around our neighborhood behaving as bad if not worse than Dex )it breaks his 'look at me ' concentration and he goes into a frenzy ,lunging towards the dog,sometimes even barking back.it will take me a good few seconds ( it feels like minutes :-\) to get him into a Sit and look at me again,when he does and he is calm he is rewarded and we continue on......me like a wrung out rag! If we come upon another dog on lead by surprise ie one rounds the corner of the road on our side......I'm in trouble,he lies down flat instantly and pays no attention to verbal cues or food bribes.if I stand in front of him to block his view he shifts position and then I see the muscles tense for the massive leap I know he's going to do,it takes me all my strength to hold him back and this version of the lunge always results in a barking match because frankly he's probably scared the other dog to death :-[ I can honestly say that on the encounters where he gets what he wants ie to get to the other dog .....or despite me asking the other owner not to...they come over there have been no aggressive incidents( even the incident with the puppy was my fault putting him in a situation where he lacked experience )he wags his tail to bits,sniffs around the other dog,gets sniffed back and then walks on as if nothing has happened.off lead he is a dream,he can play with every dog we meet,he can get a bit rough with smaller dogs and I have to time him out for a little while but every dog comes back for more ??? Even in some cases when he is on his time out,fume ,fume,the other owner should keep their dog back at that point I feel ! I have read and read about this ,looking into dog behaviour and signals,revising posts of other forum members and reading the training advice .Rachael's advice comes up quite a bit about managing the distance and only getting closer when the dog can cope,I'm actually turning and walking in the other direction now when I see a dog coming during that window in the behaviour chain where I can still get his attention....we don't seem to be able to close that distance ......now at 19 months?I just feel out of my depth and no improvement is being made.... I have a friend who has a lab related to Dexter,her dog started behaving similarly at the same age but she put it down to him being attacked and bitten by another dog on lead.her home life has changed quite radically recently so her lab ihas been going into daycare ,only one day a week or a fortnight but she said Barnie is behaving much better on his lead walks now.ive been down to the same facility today and spoken to the owner.......I've come home in tears :'( I'm not expecting it to solve my problem with the lead work but surely as a supplementary activity alongside my perseverance ,socializing with a few more new dogs can only help?She basically said that if he behaves how I've described when he has his Intro session ( which happens on the lead?) he won't be able to stay :'( :'( :'( .........she's made me feel like I have an aggressive dog,but I truly don't think I have.This lady knows Dexter ,he is groomed at this place. I feel inept,is he aggressive and I am totally not seeing that?By researching as much as I can on dog behaviour I truly feel he isn't,but his reactions can be so powerful is there something other than the desire to play that is driving him? There isn't a big choice of trainers here,( and there are NO Behaviourists )and the ones I've met make me lack confidence in their experience and skill level........ I'm quite apprehensive about him being in daycare,I know some of your dogs on here love it and it's a really positive experience but I've heard some horrors out here Anyway let's see.......that's where we are with it,feel a bit down about it all today to be honest :'( sorry x
Re: Lunging......getting worse Angela, hugs, hugs, hugs. Charlie is still lunging at other dogs - a lot. We can just about cope on our "safe" streets, but somewhere new, it's still a big, big, circus. Just this morning as we were walking back to the car, a lady was about to get her dogs out and I asked her to wait a minute while we got passed and away (we would have been super close and I'd have had a big lunge fest). I don't have any tips but what you already know. But just to say I'm not in a dissimilar place to you, and I'm also in the just doing my best camp. You will get there. You will, really. The only thing...my OH told me yesterday "don't fuss so much". There was a lab off lead coming down the path and I went into my "right, let's get ready, implement the off lead dog plan A" mode. My OH just said "let's just cool it". And Charlie was much, much better!
Re: Lunging......getting worse Oh Angela, from everything you have written over the past few months, I would not say Dexter is aggressive. You have done a fab job with him and I think nearly everyone has at least one difficulty with there dogs (but don't always want to admit it!), mine is Harley pulling on her lead. Like me, you are constantly training and trying to help them become well-rounded dogs. Please don't loose faith in yourself and Dexter, you are a fab mum to him . I feel a bit annoyed with what the lady said to you.....surely she should be encouraging you to try and see if daycare works for Dexter!! Anyway, big hugs xxx
Re: Lunging......getting worse Angela, I'm sure you might have read this already, but this article covers the reasons why a perfectly well socialised dog is fine off lead, but might react on lead: http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/dogs-who-are-reactive-leash Hope it reassures, a bit at least.
Re: Lunging......getting worse Oh honey, lots of love from us too! I don't think Dexter sounds aggressive either, he sounds quite like Riley at that age You've met Riley, mostly he's pretty good but other dogs are still our biggest challenge and if he doesn't quite lunge any more he still rushes off, deaf to any commands and is quite rude in dog terms....straight in their face and then a jolly good sniff! I certainly don't get cross when dogs tell him off - I would if it was me I think Riley is a mix of submissive - quite a bit of lying down when he's nervous or unsure - and stupidly pushy - as when he does approach his tail is stiff and pointing up and he's right in front of the other dog. I would say he's better when he's had more dog playing, it doesn't even have to be a lot of variety in the dogs just a bit of a hoolie with another dog chills him out a bit. I definitely used the about turn to good effect when he was younger and I still employ it to this day if he starts to pull which he did just the other day to get to Crumpy : Hang in there it will get better xxx
Re: Lunging......getting worse Dexter is not aggressive. No way. He is just voicing his extremely strong view that he should get to say hi to who he likes, when he likes. When he can't, he yells with frustration. I think that the day care is a good idea. He's a friendly dog and would love to play with a group of buddies.
Re: Lunging......getting worse Oh thankyou everybody.....I do start to doubt myself sometimes.it always helps when you come on here and folks tell me about their experiences..... I truly don't think he's aggressive but I'm very aware that lunging on 2 back legs and barking at another dog.....looks far from friendly :-[ It's a full time commitment to engineer off lead runs with other dogs,I've got a consistent pool of dogs we draw on so he's not getting to meet an awful lot of new dogs,maybe the daycare session will make new dogs less interesting.....I'll keep chipping away at it....there are so many things I look back at over the 15 months we've had him and think,he doesn't do that anymore.....I hope one day I can do the same about this! ;D Thanks again,have/ hope you had a great Sunday everyone x
Re: Lunging......getting worse Oh Angela , I am so sorry that you feel down Sam was just the same , I despaired at times , wondering what I was doing wrong, he just didnt seem to get it at all and I too would come home in tears . Any of the members who have met Sam will say that he is a big gentle giant of a dog, so laid back that he is practically horizontal, but he wasnt always this way I can promise you The first thing I realised was that I had to chill out, big style . I now firmly believe that our dogs pick up on our nervousness and anxiety , they feel our tension down the lead and sense that we are becoming agitated , this passes to them, telling them that there is something to worry about . A more relaxed attitude will also pass to our dogs , giving them confidence and security . I dont think Dex is aggressive at all , just worried , hugs to you xx
Re: Lunging......getting worse I think Kate ,you and Julie's OH are right about the chilling out.....the lady at the daycare centre said the same....I know I'm getting anxious anticipating a lunge .....and she said she can see my anxiety just talking about it with me.she also knows I'm apprehensive about leaving him at daycare ( if he gets accepted ???) so she said when I come with him on Tuesday to come as relaxed as I possibly can about the whole thing and just see how it plays out........
Re: Lunging......getting worse Good luck for Tuesday.....try not to get sent to time out like at Agility x
Re: Lunging......getting worse Chilling out is always easier said than done Just remember that if daycare doesn't work out you're no worse off than you are now xxx
Re: Lunging......getting worse No way is dexter an aggressive dog angela. I'd suggest you have a go at BAT for frustrated greeters. I explain it in the thread I started over excitement/nervousness. Today I've done two set ups and it work they were calm !!!!!!! ;D
Re: Lunging......getting worse [quote author=Naya link=topic=5392.msg67962#msg67962 date=1397399792] Good luck for Tuesday.....try not to get sent to time out like at Agility x [/quote] Ha ha ha ha Ternaya! While I can still laugh all is not lost ;D There was a funny episode in the lunging story.......last weekend we hadn't started with training Dexter to wee in the garden so Chris had taken him out on a toilet break.He walked out of our gate ,started to cross the road to the park and Leila, an elderly yellow lab suddenly appears.Her habit is to sit down and not budge until she gets let off her lead to go over to the other dog.She and Dexter do play off lead but the walker and I have a signal we give that means one of us turns away before the standoff gets under way......Chris has been appraised of this management excercise but you know my Husband and how much notice he takes of me : when it comes to Dexters behaviour Anyway Dexter flattens himself to the floor ,won't budge,Leila has the 'Bum of Concrete' as termed by Julie's OH and a car starts coming!the car slows,down to a stop,chris can't shift our dog for anything so he does nothing more than have to lift Dexter up off the road and carry him back into the house,he said all the kids in the park watching this were aughing at them saying 'Look at Dexter,he won't walk,he's got to be carried!whats wrong with him?!'Chris was mortified! ;D Serves him beeping right! ;D you couldn't make some of our antics up could you ! X Jen ,I think you are right ,I've started considering the value of it after reading some of your posts I'll order a book and get read up about it . Thanks Barbara ,I get a bit self conscious when I'm in a 'dog facility ' because I always think everyone knows more than me and I get a bit flustered! :-\ ,that doesn't help anything.I'm really going to try and take a chill pill, and,like you say,nothing lost x
Re: Lunging......getting worse Me too! I got all self conscious when the photographer came to our training session even though I invited him! And I bump into him all the time out walking Riley and he's always really nice. Doesn't help he was a police dog handler and is now a professional dog trainer : I had to give myself a stiff talking to otherwise I was in danger of completely ruining our training session - doh! Big hugs honey xxx Edited to say: not suggesting you'd ruin your training but I was definitely close and getting very frustrated
Re: Lunging......getting worse I think it is a Lab thing this lunge! They are so flippin' powerful, go from 0 to 100 in a fraction of a second. My first Lab is a master of this but getting better; I made sure no 2 wouldn't be the same and taught him the 'leave' command and rewarded him with a ball. If he now sees another dog, he immediately turns towards me for the ball. I have lessons with an ex police dog handler and he believes in giving dogs responsibility so he makes me sit the dogs with their leads over their backs and me walk away and tell them to stay so that they control themselves and they do! He says a mother lion, on seeing a hyena will guide her cubs behind her by walking smoothly on, taking no notice and this is how I should behave, with utter calmness and not stopping as we walk past other dogs Don't worry Dexter, you dog isn't aggressive, he is just on a lead!
Re: Lunging......getting worse Hi Angela, I think most of us suffer this on lead issue to a degree, I do with Charlie with a few dogs not all. Whenever possible we stop even at a long distance away from another dog and treat for calmness and we try really hard not to tense up when passing other dogs which is the most difficult bit Some dogs Charlie doesn't even notice but others we have this reaction. I don't know if it's a boy thing but I have not had this with Hattie, she might pull a little to get to a friend but never any lunging. We just have to keep on training. I hope your OK, sending lots of hugs to you xxx
Re: Lunging......getting worse Yep, it's an issue we're working on too. When Obi sees other dogs he shouts "HEY, YOU, HI, YES YOU, I'M TALKING TO YOU". It's not always for the same reason - sometimes it's a desire to greet, sometimes it's just a shouting match (e.g. other dogs barking from behind fences), sometimes he's a bit anxious. Clicking for a 'turn to me', keeping slack in the lead whenever it is humanly possible and maintaining a relaxed demeanour have all paid dividends over time.
Re: Lunging......getting worse Sorry you were feeing down about this, Angela. The article that Julie posted sounded more like what is going on, certainly not aggressive behaviour. Try not to fret about it, you will be able to get a plan to deal with it and you will start to see progress.
Re: Lunging......getting worse Hi Angela, Meg was very much like that when she was young. It could be a lab thing as we met lots of young labs at the time and it was quite funny, they all did the same thing. I was lucky that Meg was very quick at learning. Did the same as Stacia, leave command with a ball, and she soon decided that she preferred the ball. Good luck, you're a really good mum to Dexter. It's all a learning curve with our furry friends.
Re: Lunging......getting worse Hang in there Angela, you know that Dexter isn't an aggressive dog. You take such care with Dexter, I know you'll get this sorted as well. X
