Jessie is 11 months old now and I thought things were getting better, but I feel she has taken a massive step backwards. Having worked endlessly on recall, she was doing brilliantly, even calling back from other people and dogs at a distance. But in the last week she has legged it across fields after people and dogs on 3 occasions. I am super vigilant with her to watch out for hazards, but these are things she is seeing over 2 fields away, that I can barely see. I did have her on a long training lead, which was going great. But I don't even feel I can trust her on that now. As she is taking off after things that are miles away like a bullet. She got out of the garden the other day, which I thought was completely secure. I've obviously secured this now. But I don't know if it this taste of freedom that has caused the issues? But she was only out for minutes. I had also in the past couple of weeks tried to vary the high value rewards more, but clearly nothing is higher value than tearing after another person or dog. I know 11 months is still a puppy, am I expecting too much from her at this stage, or am I just failing her? I am spending more time walking her and training with her than ever as my kids are both at school now. But it is clearly not enough. I just feel totally despairing and want to cry. I just don't know where to go with training from here? I guess my recall is broken. so it is back to square one with a different word or whistle? Do I try and let her of the lead again. She is a lovely dog and I so want it to work. She is working line and has so much energy. I just feel this is beyond me. I need to take her for a walk now, but the idea fills me with dread.
Hi there, take a deep breath, have a cup of tea, and then take your girl out for a nice walk. We've all been there, and understand. Is there anywhere you can take her that is secure, where you can let her off the lead to let off steam and have a good run around and play with you? What kind of training do you do with her? Do you go to a training group - if she is from working lines she will probably need some kind of structured activity, such as agility or gundog work to keep her mentally and physically stimulated.
Hi there Chin up, your dog is perfectly normal. And you'll get over this. You will, honestly. She sounds like my older dog, Charlie. I won't bore you with the story of how the problems began, but they were quite extreme. He would run - over very long distances - to any distraction. Other dogs, people, bikes, skateboards....anything that was moving. Recall is only part of it. Once you have a dog that will bolt to these kinds of distraction that are highly reinforcing (I think all of it is reinforcing - the mad run, the anticipation of excitement, the excitement of getting there) and has learned to do it (my new puppy has never been given the chance!) recall will break down very, very quickly. Because you are using it to stop the dog getting to something he wants again and again. There is no faster way, IMHO, to break a recall than this. So what you have to do is work on your recall but put as much or more effort into keeping your dog with you so you do not have to try to use your recall all the time. Because in the circumstances you have, it will fail, and then it will fail again.....then you've broken it. You keep your dog with you by engaging them totally in being with you. High value games are the best for this. If you don't have high value games, you need to develop them and build them up. Then you start by taking your dog's lead off and playing one of your games. Then put the dog's lead back on. Rinse and repeat until lead off means 'massively exciting game with mum'. Then you walk a tiny bit, rewarding attention, then you play a game and lead back on. You build this up until your dog is focussed on you when he doesn't have his lead on. Obviously, this is just the start of it, you have to progress until you have a 'normal' dog able to interact with the environment without playing a game all the time! But it's a good way to start. I do understand this, I went through it with Charlie - he was truly dreadful, but now much improved. He is never going to be perfect, and we struggle at Gundog training when it gets very exciting, and on busy beaches he has to play football for most of the time. But I can live with that.
Thank you for replying. I've had a cup of tea. Done some work and feel calmer! We had done 20 weeks of puppy training. But are having a break from this, as I felt we needed to work on what we had learnt. But I really do need to find another class for her. I just don't know what. I think she is too crazy at the moment for any other sort of advanced training. But I agree, she needs something more structured. I have been looking for some gun dog training, but I can't find anything local that looks right. I think I need to look harder.
Thank you so much for the swift reply. It is nice to know it can get better! I've never owned a dog before and it all feels a bit beyond me at the moment. Which is frustrating as a week ago I could have posted about how well it was going and I can't quite put my finger on what has changed! I have been trying to play with her more on walks, and we have been doing a lot of work on keeping her attention on me. But great idea about associate being off lead with fun games. I am going out now with our tug toy she only has on walks and giving it a go! I also think Jessie will never be perfect either, but I really don't need perfect, just a bit better would be nice! She is a lovely, lovely dog and I just want her to an acceptable doggy citizen rather than a nightmare on 4 legs.
Glad you're feeling a bit better than earlier. Honestly you can overcome this and in a couple of years will barely be able to remember it. I would second the advice from JulieT about games - playing with Molly was what really gave her focus on me and made her believe I was the centre for fun activity. With my dog-before-last (a cocker) I did no formal training, yet she was extremely well-behaved and looking back I think it was at least partly because I played with her so much. I also found the 'about turn walk' in woodland worked well as Molly learnt she had to keep an eye on me. I also did about 6 months gundog training, in which Molly only acquired very basic retrieving skills, but which improved general obedience, as the dummies became rewarding. I think you'd need to explain to any gundog trainer what stage you're at and what you are hoping to achieve - mine was happy to accept my dog without complete recall at the time.
Thank you for this. I haven't done the about turn thing for a while, but will try this again. And woodland is a good idea! I think I am scared that at the moment he would just carry on walking!! Good point about the gundog training. Perhaps someone would take her in this excitable state!!
With the about-turn walk in woodland, don't let her get too far ahead, just a couple of yards. Then turn in among the trees where she can't easily see you and give one call and keep walking. I didn't use my recall but used 'this way'. Keep repeating, each time not letting the dog get too far ahead before turning. Molly was soon checking in very frequently. Another thing I did was to give a food reward whenever Molly came near me uncalled.
I give a class of basic gundog training with a group of somewhat mixed ability, and I have a couple of dogs with less-than-perfect recall in my group! Unfortunately this would be of no help to you as I live in Germany... but what I do is either we train on our safely-fenced club training ground, or else if we are in an unsecured area I get those participants whose dogs do not have reliable recall to use a training line, so your dog would certainly be able to take part. Take a look at the Gundog Club, they may have trainers in your area - if you are on facebook you can look them up.
THANK YOU everyone. I don't know what I would do without the forum. I've wanted a dog for so long, but it has ben so hard. Anyway, deep breath taken........ we've been out for an hour and did the on off lead playing, which was fun and seemed to hold her attention for short periods. I did a bit of other training and put her back on the lead again and repeated. However, I think we need some more games, as things that are fun for ages in the garden, hold limited appeal in the big wide world. But the walked passed without incident! I also need to remember how far we have come in many ways! We walked through two fields of cows and a flock of Canada geese at a reasonably steady heal. She will now leave all forms of poo that she used to eat. I need to tell myself it isn't all awful. I am definitely going to look at the gun dog training and see if I can find someone who can take her in the current dodgy part trained state! In the meantime I am going to work on her sit and stay as this is patchy and teach her some new tricks to keep her mind active. The nearest Gun Dog Club trainer is a fair distance away from here. But I might contact him anyway and if it sounds right I might just go for it.
If you're interested in gundog work, I'd suggest you book a private lesson with an instructor for a couple of hours. This should give you plenty of things to work on. Even if you have to travel to see them and so can't go frequently, you can still have enough to work on between times. I travel to the UK to do my gundog training, so that can only be very infrequent. Once you have a little bit of the basics, you can then ask on here for advice, post videos etc and everyone will help. It's been invaluable to me between my UK trips. Where are you in the UK?
That's a great idea. I am in Buckinghamshire. She came from a gundog trainer, but I think his methods aren't entirely positive, which I don't think is right for us. The nearest trainer from the Gundog Club is around an hour away, so a bit too far for a regular class with my other commitments, but would be fine for a lesson here or there.
You can also use the Gundog Club books to work towards the grading scheme, which is good fun and gives you an easy-to-follow framework.
Glad you are seeing some progress already! I have a great video of Charlie legging it about half a mile because he spotted a man in an orange jacket....on a railway line. Must dig that out to give you a laugh. Well, it wasn't all that funny at the time...
It is such a horrible feeling at the time though, isn't it?! It is also not quite being sure of the reaction from the poor jumped upon person when you finally reach them puffing, panting and apologising!
I can only reiterate what has been said above.. it does get better, I had such a tough time with my boy at this age that honestly I could have given up on him - and that's coming from somebody that has had rescue Springer Spaniels and Great Danes for the past 20 years. He's working line also and I got him with the express intention of working him (as well as being my family pet of course) but it has been a steep learning curve for both of us, he's 19 months now and I feel we are coming out the other side. Everything you said especially the feeling of dread at the thought of walking him brought back so many memories. Stick at it it will be worth it and if you can find the right gundog trainer do try it, I eventually did and the difference it has made has been remarkable - mainly me not crying every lesson ha ha ha! and we're having a great time now.
I just want to say I feel your pain...we have been working on recall with Quinn since day 1 (now 10.5 months) and after some embarrassing and possibly dangerous bolts, decided I needed more help than Total Recall and signed up for a recall specific training class. She has been doing so well at class and we have been practicing a lot. Then yesterday a homeless guy walked though the park and for some reason once he was out of the park, she chased him...sprinting a full speed across a road. She never usually cares for people (she's more of a ball and dog kinda girl) and always recalls from them. I feel like we are going right back to basics again...
Oh I feel your pain! We've said it before but I think our pups are very similar!! After a few bolts after pheasants I did two one on one lessons with a positive funding trainer. It was so great and he gave me loads of training/games to practice at home. I have to be hyper aware and pop him on the lead if I know he will run or pre-empt by putting him on a lead before we get to a pheasant hot spot! and I do take super yummy chicken with me on a lot of walks which keeps him hyper engaged with me. The main thing he told me was that this was self rewarding behaviour so it's important to try not to let them do it in the first place. I now try as Julie said to make the walks more fun and we play hide and seek, ball, treat finding etc. It is definitely working and he is much more engaged with me on walks now but I feel it's an ongoing process for the moment! After my last very laid back lab this is a complete change for me as Mole us much much more active. I think he wants jobs to do all the time so instead of saying no I now ask him to do something instead and it really works. He no longer jumps up as I ask him to get a toy and have repeated it over and over rewarding when he does and the jumping up finally stopped. It's hard work. Don't beat yourself up. They are young and full of it at the moment - you are doing a great job with her. Do try and find a gundog trainer if you can. Has really helped us. Glad the last walk was better Sam and Mole
Hi, most of us have been there. My Meg too is working line and full of energy. The thing that helped us the most was training with distractions...umpteen obedience classes repeating exercises with a variable variety of dogs around. She now age 2 has a sharp reliable recall but we both had to work at it. Best of luck Emma and Meg
